BREAKING: Chevrolet Volt = 230 MPG City

[JewelZ]

I keep rubbin my eyes and make sure that I am reading it right, 230mpg!!! Live in America, buy American, be an American!

[MikesZ]

Originally Posted by JewelZ

I keep rubbin my eyes and make sure that I am reading it right, 230mpg!!! Live in America, buy American, be an American!

I hope people buy the plug-ins like crazy so there'll be enough fuel left for those of us who still prefer the gas-combustion mode of transportation.

[tsg1391]

Originally Posted by AngryAmish

Its all relative.

For example, lets say you spend $30 a week on gas. Thats $1560 the Volt saves you a year. Over the life of a 5 year loan, thats $7800.

If the Volt is $40k, minus the 7800 saved on gas and the 7500 tax break, it brings the price of the car to $24700.

And personally, I feel I'm lowballing like crazy saying $30 a week. Most people probably pay closer to $50.

Electricity costs money as well, they said 2.75 per 100 miles, at 11 cents per kwh. You need to factor that in to your equation.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by AngryAmish

Its all relative.

For example, lets say you spend $30 a week on gas. Thats $1560 the Volt saves you a year. Over the life of a 5 year loan, thats $7800.

If the Volt is $40k, minus the 7800 saved on gas and the 7500 tax break, it brings the price of the car to $24700.

And personally, I feel I'm lowballing like crazy saying $30 a week. Most people probably pay closer to $50.

The biggest thing is being responsible enough to apply the money saved on gas to paying off the car. As long as you can do that, I feel the Volt is the best option in its class.

The biggest problem really is finding a way for people in apt housing to charge the car. But that might allready be solved. Don't forget the money that was set aside to create green jobs. Designated parking and parking meter-like charging stations that were wired into each separate housing unit would take care of that.

Cities like NYC pose the biggest problem...but how many people living in NYC really own a car anyway?

You're forgetting about the cost of a new battery after ten years as well.. Yes, the price of the batteries should be less in ten years, however it is still a major cost once it is depleted to where you are no longer getting 40 miles on a single charge but 15 for example. And since the Volt runs off the battery, if it isn't working at 100%, will the car stutter or run slower? I'm sure we'll find all this out in a few years after the Volt is released but it is something to think about.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Supermans

You're forgetting about the cost of a new battery after ten years as well.. Yes, the price of the batteries should be less in ten years, however it is still a major cost once it is depleted to where you are no longer getting 40 miles on a single charge but 15 for example. And since the Volt runs off the battery, if it isn't working at 100%, will the car stutter or run slower? I'm sure we'll find all this out in a few years after the Volt is released but it is something to think about.

A few things to consider here.

#1a, the battery is a 16 kilowatt unit. That is, it can hold a 16 Kilowatt charge. (almost enough power to run your house for two days off the grid....) BUT, that 40-mile range only uses 8 kilowatts. The reason they did this is so the battery will never have a depleted charge, and so it will maximize the battery's lifespan.

#1b, A Battery's life expectancy is usually expressed in terms of charge capacity. Or, the amount of the original 16 Kw that the battery can still hold after x years. Based on preliminary reports, the battery should maintain at least 70% capacity at the ten year point. Which means, if they program the on-board computer properly, you'll still get a 40-mile (or extremely close) range at the ten-year point. And ten-years is, on-average, the amount of time you'll own a vehicle. At that point, it's pretty much expected for your car to start having problems.

#1c, In ten years time...Battery technology will have advanced to the point of making these batteries obsolete. Hopefully, that will drive the cost of the batteries down by half or three-quarters. If you were hell-bent on keeping your original Chevy Volt, (instead of buying a new, cheaper version) you could probably buy a relatively new, antiquated battery for very little $$.

#2, The car's performance will not be effected by the battery. Think of it like your cell phone, because the batteries used in both are similar. When your cell phone is 2 years old, you have to recharge it more often, correct? But the phone still performs, and functions like new (provided you haven't dropped it and broken something). This will be the case of the Volt. No stuttering, no speed problems due to the battery. If those problems exist, it will be the fault of the motors (which, like any motor will last almost forever), not the battery.

[AngryAmish]

Originally Posted by tsg1391

Electricity costs money as well, they said 2.75 per 100 miles, at 11 cents per kwh. You need to factor that in to your equation.

1. See Dragoneye's post.
2. How many people keep a daily driver these days more than 10 years?

I also remember seeing somewhere that a charge would cost 40 Cents. I'll see if I can find that again for you.

[Mr. Wyndham]

At a rate of 11 cents a Kwh, and 8 KwH per charge,

you get roughly, .88 a charge. And about $2.20 dollars per 100 miles. That's compared to $3.00 for 30 miles, or $10.02 per 10 miles, IF you do only hwy driving. (And all the oil to go along with it...which is most of the reason they're making this car.)


-----
As for your post following mine about cost-to-own, AngryAmish, you're on the right track, but you're not showing it correctly. The cost of gas isn't actually deducted from the Volt's cost, so it's improperly represented that way, because it's really hypothetical.

In real life, again using a 25k Malibu @ 30mpg (avg...which is a pretty astounding number), 3.50 a gallon (call this an average number over the span of 2010-2020...), and 15,000 miles a year compared to the Volt over ten years, NOT counting maintenance costs:

Malibu @ ten years: $42,500
Volt @ ten years: $35,800
$$ saved: $6700

So, as you can see, the Volt actually DOES save you money over it's operational lifespan. And if you increase the price of gas, or increase the time you own it, the difference only multiplies; take a more realistic $5/gal avg and maybe .15/KwH, for example:

Malibu @ ten years: $50,000
Volt @ ten years: $37,000
$$ saved: $13,000

This car wasn't built to save you money. At least not primarily. It was built to prove GM can build a super-efficient car, to "kick Toyota in the teeth" according to Bob Lutz , and to eliminate the automobile from the fuel/emissions debate.

The kicker is if people can afford the initial sticker price. If they're smart (illustrated above), they'll try to.

Good news is, Volt 2.0 will be cheaper. That goal is already in mind.

[tsg1391]

Originally Posted by AngryAmish

1. See Dragoneye's post.
2. How many people keep a daily driver these days more than 10 years?

I also remember seeing somewhere that a charge would cost 40 Cents. I'll see if I can find that again for you.

...what? I dont see how any of those statements/questions relate to my post...

[AngryAmish]

Originally Posted by tsg1391

...what? I dont see how any of those statements/questions relate to my post...

That would be because I was sleepy and quoted the wrong person..lol.

Whoops.

[GTAHVIT]

I ran the numbers a while back against my Mazda3 that is nearly paid off.

This was way before we knew the $7500 tax credit was in play.

Check these out... A couple different ways to look at it.

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

Ok, lets look at it this way. I drive 50 miles round trip to work a day.

In the Volt, battery drive distance is 40 miles and the 7 gallon tank is estimated to get 360 miles.

So, starting with a full tank and a full charge I will travel 400 miles at an average of 60 miles per gallon on a single tank. Assuming you don't charge the batteries every night. In other words: One battery charge per fillup. This will last 8 days and I'm only paying to fill a 7 gallon tank.

However, one tank of gas, if I charge the batteries every night, I'm really only driving 10 miles a day using gas. So the 360 mile range of the tank will last 36 days for a grand total of 1800 miles on a single tank of gas. At 257 mpg over those 36 days. Furthermore, this is assuming I drive it 50 miles everyday including weekends. Which I don't so if I only drive it Mon - Fri. a tank of gas will last even longer!!!

Currently my Mazda 3 gets 30+ mpg on a 13 gallon / 360 mile range per tank. At 50 miles per day, one tank lasts me a little more than 7 days. And I'm paying to fill a 13 gallon tank, twice that of the Volt.

So even if I don't charge the batteries every night I'm still getting double the mpg I get now. But when you do charge them every night.... How can anyone argue the benefits of this car.


I think limiting your self to a battery range without considering the total benefit of charging the battery daily is a little short sighted. IMVHO.

EDIT:

For comparison, lets go with a 100 mile commute and charge the battery every night.

Subtract the 40 miles of battery range per day, you drive only 60 miles per day on gas. The tank will last 6 days for a total of 600 miles at an average of 85 miles per gallon over the 6 days. Still far and away better then my Mazda 3 at 50 miles round trip.

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

I think I follow your numbers but I'm not quite sure.

Lets talk monthly payment and monthly gas bill.

25k car 30 mpg 50 mile commute

5 year payment 500, gas bill 200. average 700 per month.

Volt. 40K (Guess?) 50 mile commute
Same loan as above = 800 payment, gas bill 20. Average 820 per month.

So, if you bought both cars on the same day, over 60 months/5yrs, you'd pay 7200 more for the volt. With a difference of 180 per month in gas it would take you another 3.3 years/40 months to break even.

So, if you have a low cost car that gets 30 or so mpg. The Volt isn't a good option if you drive over 40 miles a day.

Obviously if you are looking at cars in the same price range, the Volt wins hands down. No contest. With my Mazda 3 being paid off. I can't justify it. Now the Tahoe on the other hand.......

Edit:

Also, we don't know what the Volt's price will be so this is speculation. It's a tall order to put a 40K car against a 25k car and expect it to be more affordable in the long run.