Two New GM Concepts: Bare Necessities Truck/Car - Page 2

Zeus · 08-11-2009, 08:27 PM

Turbo diesel engine ehh...

My brother has one with a chip, thing has 800+lb/ft torque.

Michael_Js · 08-11-2009, 08:45 PM

I like the truck idea :-) NO WAY on the car! I'll keep my Camaro - if I ever get it :( waiting, and waiting, and waiting...

manimsoblack · 08-11-2009, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PolishMike

Why don't they just allow diesels to be made/sold in the US?

All over Europe there are already cars getting 55+ MPG (think VW scirocco) using diesel? Because it doesn't make any money for lefty politicians they push "alternative fuels" that are not as efficient as what we already have but CHOOSE not to use.

They are... just there's a bit of a stigma attached to them about being dirty, and difficult to manage, and the fuel being more expensive so people aren't exactly lining up to buy them.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 08-11-2009, 10:08 PM

...actually..... diesels don't, and won't catch on in the US (in cars, anyway) due to two major factors. At least according to GM.

One: US Emissions regulations on diesel engines are STRICT....to quote Bob Lutz: "you have to carry a chemical factory on your car to meet them[standards]". This makes the fuel economy benefit drop from roughly 30% to roughly 20%. And costs roughly $4000-$6000 more than a comparable gas engine.

Two: That fuel economy benefit is negated by higher fuel prices. Diesel is (on average) 20% more expensive than gasoline...

Again to quote Bob Lutz, "you just can't...can not...make a solid case for diesel in the US auto market."

Bottom line, it is cost-prohibitive to do mainstream diesel in the USA. That's not to say trucks can't make advantage of the torque and longevity, nor do I expect there to never be an American-made diesel car...it's just very unlikely.

The reason it works in Europe is because they have a vastly different automotive culture than the US. In terms of fuel taxation and emissions regulation to the afore mentioned impression of diesel. All of the above is flip-flopped. Diesel is cheaper in Europe, emissions standards are more forgiving in Europe...people don't fear diesel in Europe...

FenwickHockey65 · 08-11-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

...actually..... diesels don't, and won't catch on in the US (in cars, anyway) due to two major factors. At least according to GM.

One: US Emissions regulations on diesel engines are STRICT....to quote Bob Lutz: "you have to carry a chemical factory on your car to meet them[standards]". This makes the fuel economy benefit drop from roughly 30% to roughly 20%. And costs roughly $4000-$6000 more than a comparable gas engine.

Two: That fuel economy benefit is negated by higher fuel prices. Diesel is (on average) 20% more expensive than gasoline...

Again to quote Bob Lutz, "you just can't...can not...make a solid case for diesel in the US auto market."

Bottom line, it is cost-prohibitive to do mainstream diesel in the USA. That's not to say trucks can't make advantage of the torque and longevity, nor do I expect there to never be an American-made diesel car...it's just very unlikely.

The reason it works in Europe is because they have a vastly different automotive culture than the US. In terms of fuel taxation and emissions regulation to the afore mentioned impression of diesel. All of the above is flip-flopped. Diesel is cheaper in Europe, emissions standards are more forgiving in Europe...people don't fear diesel in Europe...

Exactly.

stovt001 · 08-11-2009, 10:21 PM

Except diesel is cheaper than gas now and VW is selling their diesel Jettas like hotcakes.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 08-11-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stovt001

Except diesel is cheaper than gas now and VW is selling their diesel Jettas like hotcakes.

But GM has to be especially careful of their product priorities, and plan for the future. Emissions standards on diesel is expected to get even tougher within a couple years, and fuel prices won't stay what they are beyond the end of 2010...

fwiw.......

MikesZ · 08-12-2009, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

I think the car might just be a design study. The truck on the other hand is definitely interesting and something GM should look into further.

I'd find a 40mpg truck very interesting.

zebra · 08-12-2009, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

i love how it says 'GM CONFIDENTIAL' on the bottom

zebra · 08-12-2009, 01:44 AM

ps - this was a 'basic necessities' truck long before that one

am/fm radio, cloth seats, vinyl floor, built LQ4, & a t-56... that's about all anybody needs, right?

Gentry78 · 08-12-2009, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zebra

ps - this was a 'basic necessities' truck long before that one

am/fm radio, cloth seats, vinyl floor, built LQ4, & a t-56... that's about all anybody needs, right?

and the truck one would be cool as a light weight 4x4 for a off roader

FenwickHockey65 · 08-12-2009, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zebra

i love how it says 'GM CONFIDENTIAL' on the bottom

Well, it was released on Autoblog...hopefully Number 3 doesn't skin me alive for this...

manimsoblack · 08-12-2009, 12:47 PM

[/QUOTE]

anyone else notice the bowtie door handle area?

Zabo · 08-12-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manimsoblack

anyone else notice the bowtie door handle area?

Now I do.. could be an interesting touch/motif that Chevy could adopt.

08-11-2009, 10:08 PM	#18
Mr. Wyndham I used to be Dragoneye... Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 31,873 View My Garage	...actually..... diesels don't, and won't catch on in the US (in cars, anyway) due to two major factors. At least according to GM. One: US Emissions regulations on diesel engines are STRICT....to quote Bob Lutz: "you have to carry a chemical factory on your car to meet them[standards]". This makes the fuel economy benefit drop from roughly 30% to roughly 20%. And costs roughly $4000-$6000 more than a comparable gas engine. Two: That fuel economy benefit is negated by higher fuel prices. Diesel is (on average) 20% more expensive than gasoline... Again to quote Bob Lutz, "you just can't...can not...make a solid case for diesel in the US auto market." Bottom line, it is cost-prohibitive to do mainstream diesel in the USA. That's not to say trucks can't make advantage of the torque and longevity, nor do I expect there to never be an American-made diesel car...it's just very unlikely. The reason it works in Europe is because they have a vastly different automotive culture than the US. In terms of fuel taxation and emissions regulation to the afore mentioned impression of diesel. All of the above is flip-flopped. Diesel is cheaper in Europe, emissions standards are more forgiving in Europe...people don't fear diesel in Europe... __________________ *"Keep the faith."* - Fbodfather

08-11-2009, 10:21 PM	#20
stovt001 Drives: 2006 Cobalt, 2004 Taurus wagon Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: California Posts: 3,810	Except diesel is cheaper than gas now and VW is selling their diesel Jettas like hotcakes. __________________ "It's kind of fun to do the impossible" - Walt Disney There's a great big beautiful tomorrow shining at the end of every day There's a great big beautiful tomorrow Just a dream away

08-12-2009, 01:44 AM	#24
zebra just can't seem to leave Drives: your mom wild!! Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: cold & windy Posts: 10,625 View My Garage	ps - this was a 'basic necessities' truck long before that one am/fm radio, cloth seats, vinyl floor, built LQ4, & a t-56... that's about all anybody needs, right? __________________ Eve ('00 FRC): hot-air intake Rowan ('09 H3): 5spd mom-mobile Penny ('99 Sierra): 5.3 / HD 5spd... gone but not forgotten Samson ('18 HD): compounded 408

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