13-year-old with pellet gun shot 7 times...

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Spartan01

This is sent out to the entire board in general, not in response to a single post.

OK, first of all, IT IS A TRAGEDY THAT A CHILD DIED,
but unless you are or were ever a police officer, you should really shut up about what the police should have done. YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND unless you have been there and done that.
(I have, I walked a beat in SE DC, 6th district.)
First of all the police had to respond as if the threat was real.
Secondly, if they have an AK-47 and you have a pistol, they are severely outgunned.
They can engage at about a max of 50 yards (really pushing it,) but they can EASILY engage at well over 100 yards. Also an AK round will go right through your standard issue level 3a vest.
Also, for thos eof you claiming that 7 rounds is excessive, again if you have never walked a beat, or been in a firefight SHUT UP.
First of all, you are moving, and you are engaging a target that is moving, also you are (apparently) OUTGUNNED, and again for those of you who do not understand terminal ballistics, rounds that do strike the target do not always take immediate effect, The subject could have been wearing armor or hopped up on PCP.
You are trained to stop the attacker. when employing deadly force, you keep engaging until there is no threat. If it took 7 rounds to put the (apparent) assailant down, then that is what it took.
I am sorry that kid is dead, I am sorry that the cops involved will have to live with it forever. This is a trageday all over, yet nobody here was on the scene, so nobody here has the right to judge the actions of the kid or the cops invloved.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree in the fact that people do have a right to question what happened and what could have been done differently. Just because a human wears the badge doesn't mean that they can never be wrong and shouldn't be questioned for their actions. As far as judging them, I fully agree with you. No one has the right to pass judgement on the folks involved. I'm sure no one could be any harder on the people involved then they are on themselves and will be for a very long time.

[Envy]

Originally Posted by jewel25

I don't have to worry about that. I will never be carrying a firearm out in the open.

In this day and age you DO NOT have to be carrying a firearm to be shot by police. Ask Roy Middleton...a black man who was shot by police in FL back in August in his own driveway. The police suspected he was a car thief (for some unexplained reason) and when he exited his own car parked in his own driveway...because they ordered him to...they fired 15 shots at him because they thought the flash of metal they saw was a gun...but it was not a gun it was just his lighter...which he was not wielding as a weapon.

Originally Posted by rray

All they had to do is call for backup in case the kid tries to run if after 30 seconds the kid don't surrender. They could hide behind there car if worried the toy was real...

They actually did call for back up. The first call made from the patrol car was to report a suspicious person and call for back up. But instead of waiting for back up...the 25 year veteran decided to escalate the situation before any witnesses could arrive. The second call was placed 10 seconds later to report that shots had been fired and all shots had be fired at that point. Over the next 16 seconds the boy was ordered to move away from the weapon as he lay dying on the ground...and when he failed to comply...the officer cuffed his lifeless body before calling for medical aid. And before anyone feels the need to inform me...I am well aware that this is standard procedure...I just wanted to paint an accurate picture.

The reason the FBI is investigating this case is due to a huge discrepancy with the timeline and the officer's story. If the officer did actually issue the order to drop the weapon twice...that alone would take approx. 6 seconds and 1 second to discharge the weapon...so that leaves less than 3 seconds for the boy to respond...and since the boy was not given a chance to turn around and see who was addressing him...all the bullet wound entries were on the side of the boys body. And of course the biggest question of all...why didn't the sheriff wait for the back up already en route...which should have been standard procedure unless there was an imminent threat. I don't know why everyone is so gungho to believe that the teen was raising his pellet gun as he turned...because that scenario makes very little sense...but it makes all kind of sense for the officers to say it happened because if they don't they're going to lose their jobs.

Will the officer that fired the shots lose his job...I doubt it...there isn't enough evidence to disprove his account. Should he lose his job just because he made a mistake...I don't think so. We all make mistakes and luckily for the rest of us...someone else is willing to put their life on the line every day and make those tough choices for us.

[jewel25]

Originally Posted by Envy

In this day and age you DO NOT have to be carrying a firearm to be shot by police. Ask Roy Middleton...a black man who was shot by police in FL back in August in his own driveway. The police suspected he was a car thief (for some unexplained reason) and when he exited his own car parked in his own driveway...because they ordered him to...they fired 15 shots at him because they thought the flash of metal they saw was a gun...but it was not a gun it was just his lighter...which he was not wielding as a weapon.



They actually did call for back up. The first call made from the patrol car was to report a suspicious person and call for back up. But instead of waiting for back up...the 25 year veteran decided to escalate the situation before any witnesses could arrive. The second call was placed 10 seconds later to report that shots had been fired and all shots had be fired at that point. Over the next 16 seconds the boy was ordered to move away from the weapon as he lay dying on the ground...and when he failed to comply...the officer cuffed his lifeless body before calling for medical aid. And before anyone feels the need to inform me...I am well aware that this is standard procedure...I just wanted to paint an accurate picture.

The reason the FBI is investigating this case is due to a huge discrepancy with the timeline and the officer's story. If the officer did actually issue the order to drop the weapon twice...that alone would take approx. 6 seconds and 1 second to discharge the weapon...so that leaves less than 3 seconds for the boy to respond...and since the boy was not given a chance to turn around and see who was addressing him...all the bullet wound entries were on the side of the boys body. And of course the biggest question of all...why didn't the sheriff wait for the back up already en route...which should have been standard procedure unless there was an imminent threat. I don't know why everyone is so gungho to believe that the teen was raising his pellet gun as he turned...because that scenario makes very little sense...but it makes all kind of sense for the officers to say it happened because if they don't they're going to lose their jobs.

Will the officer that fired the shots lose his job...I doubt it...there isn't enough evidence to disprove his account. Should he lose his job just because he made a mistake...I don't think so. We all make mistakes and luckily for the rest of us...someone else is willing to put their life on the line every day and make those tough choices for us.

I am sick of the what ifs. I can also trip and fall down my stairs tomorrow, hit my head and die. Or get attacked by a bear, hit by a car.


This thread is getting ridiculous. There is other threats out there than for me to be paranoid that I might get shot by a cop.

[FenwickHockey65]

Today I learned it takes six whole seconds to yell "Drop your weapon" twice.

[90503]

Originally Posted by jewel25

This thread is getting ridiculous.

What if the kid screwed up and meant to take his real guns. Probably on crack and grabbed the wrong ones. Didn't realize it until he pointed it at the cops and thought, "Wtf, wrong guns..."

[Ronin_2SS]

Too many people assume way too much in here....its sad.

[90503]

...Thought this was a good one...lol...

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Today I learned it takes six whole seconds to yell "Drop your weapon" twice.

It was 6 seconds before dispatch was notified they made contact and notified shots were fired, not six seconds from contact to shots fired.

[upflying]

This should settle any argument against the deputies..

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by upflying

This should settle any argument against the deputies..

For me the question isn't if the officers should have shot a quick as they did. Once they decided to put themselves in that situation they were committed at that point. They then had to do what they had to do to protect themselves. For me, it's more a matter of did they really need to handle the whole thing like that in order to resolve the situation.

[SSmoothie]

This is why the police have a tough job, I not one but I have a few close friends that are. Here's whats going on in are state. Lucky the kid didn't know how to take the safety off.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/B...229040261.html

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

You can openly carry an assault weapon in California, otherwise, how would you shoot it at a range or BLM areas?

You can legally own mags with greater than 10 round capacity, also. They only became illegal to buy or sell after 2000 but there are legals ways to get them even now.

If you are at a shooting range, that is not open carry, as that is a private establishment. To get it there, you put it in a case, or bag. Open carry is for public places...

[Spartan01]

By the way, to all the tactical geniuses who claim "the cops could have just hidden behind their cars,"
1- WRONG. have you ver seen what an AK bullet will do to a car? I have. Unless you are directly behind the axle or engine block that bullet just keeps going.
2- Have you ever heard of the term "Active Shooter?" Post Columbine, the rules changed. Police used to secure the scene and wait for backup. Now, under the training for active shooter, you are SUPPOSED to engage ASAFP in order to minimize civilian casualties.
The fact is NONE OF US WERE THERE, so we we only have eyewitness accounts from the police, speculation, innuendo, hype, hyperbole, and gross exageration by the media to know what really happened.

[GroundPilot]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Cops have shot people for holding hose nozzles when they turned around. Cops treat everyone as a threat and when the person turns around holding something, they get shot. That is the point in all of this.

Which is a problem. I am a former LEO and I do see a problem with the law enforcement landscape today. It is one thing to treat everyone as a POTENTIAL threat, but many officers treat the public as a threat, period.

My natural inclination when someone calls out to me is to turn towards them, period. If this is what happened, then I have to question the thought process of the officers who yell out to someone and when they turn they shoot. "Raising the weapon" can mean anything...hell hold a rake in your hands like a rifle and turn around, it will probably look like you are pointing the muzzle when that is not what you are really doing.

Officer safety is important, it sure as hell was to me, but that does not mean I should have treated any and all incidents as a "kill or be killed" situation, even those involving a gun.