Horsepower Wars to end with 640 hp SRT

[Stew]

Originally Posted by 1sikss

dam thats gonna be expensive there already expensive for a old technology car they don't need more hp they need a new light material frame and new high tech suspension in order to sell it for more than they already are.. i like challengers i wanted one at first but there too over priced for a heavy car..

What??????? Lets start with price, they atart around 43k, taking the Camaro for example that is right between the SS and ZL1, performance falls the same. The SRT is pretty well loaded at that price, once you load a 2SS to similar levels, you are not far off and the Challenger still comes with tech the SS does not........ oh yeah, behind on tech? old technology? Heav frame? The frame is prbably not much heavier the Camaro frame, this can be seen in the v6 vs V6 where the cars are basically the same weight, the weight comes from the iron block of the Hemi. Where to start on tech???? Lets start with performance. the SRT has larger Brembo Brakes than the SS. it has a 3 way adjustable Bilstien suspension. The Hemi has had VVT for years along with cylinder deactivation that does NOT reduce the HP rating or performance as the L99 in the Camaro. Even though it still has the "old" 5 speed auto they have retuned it and I see more praise for it's ability to adapt to the driver's driving habits and it's general drivability than i do complaints which generally center around it only having 5 gears. THis will be remedied. Other tech: The Challenger has had REAL infotainment systems with touchscreens and navigation since it came out, these are new to Camaro for 13..... It offers niceties such as keyless start and a heated steering wheel, standard, that aren't available on the Camaro at any price. Really, the 2 cars have MUCH more in common than not (pushrod engines, SEDAN platforms with fully independant suspension, hell they both the use the same 6 speed manual!) and yes the Challenger is a little more expensive when you get a Camaro CLOSE in equipment levels, but you can't get it to parity. Asfar as the price, it would be priced around the same as the ZL1/GT500, they have 10k to work with. once you add the SCed engine, more tuned suspesnion, 8 speed auto, and maybe bigger brakes and take out the cost for the parts being replaced, matching them on price is an easy thing.

[1sikss]

Originally Posted by Stew

What??????? Lets start with price, they atart around 43k, taking the Camaro for example that is right between the SS and ZL1, performance falls the same. The SRT is pretty well loaded at that price, once you load a 2SS to similar levels, you are not far off and the Challenger still comes with tech the SS does not........ oh yeah, behind on tech? old technology? Heav frame? The frame is prbably not much heavier the Camaro frame, this can be seen in the v6 vs V6 where the cars are basically the same weight, the weight comes from the iron block of the Hemi. Where to start on tech???? Lets start with performance. the SRT has larger Brembo Brakes than the SS. it has a 3 way adjustable Bilstien suspension. The Hemi has had VVT for years along with cylinder deactivation that does NOT reduce the HP rating or performance as the L99 in the Camaro. Even though it still has the "old" 5 speed auto they have retuned it and I see more praise for it's ability to adapt to the driver's driving habits and it's general drivability than i do complaints which generally center around it only having 5 gears. THis will be remedied. Other tech: The Challenger has had REAL infotainment systems with touchscreens and navigation since it came out, these are new to Camaro for 13..... It offers niceties such as keyless start and a heated steering wheel, standard, that aren't available on the Camaro at any price. Really, the 2 cars have MUCH more in common than not (pushrod engines, SEDAN platforms with fully independant suspension, hell they both the use the same 6 speed manual!) and yes the Challenger is a little more expensive when you get a Camaro CLOSE in equipment levels, but you can't get it to parity. Asfar as the price, it would be priced around the same as the ZL1/GT500, they have 10k to work with. once you add the SCed engine, more tuned suspesnion, 8 speed auto, and maybe bigger brakes and take out the cost for the parts being replaced, matching them on price is an easy thing.

The cheapest I found a nice one was 46-47 don't get me wrong I like them but I think it's a little too expensive for just that nice big engine it's really heavy I read up on it and they use heavier material for the frame that is why it's so heavy and it wastes a lot more gas than the Camaro and the automatic tranny on it is outdated for that price ... Even used the cheapest was 39

[1sikss]

Originally Posted by HEMI DAVE

None of these cars are light.....but they can still haul ass.

Yea but that is why da challenger is a muscle car not a sports car.. Just power for the strip

[Stew]

Originally Posted by 1sikss

The cheapest I found a nice one was 46-47 don't get me wrong I like them but I think it's a little too expensive for just that nice big engine it's really heavy I read up on it and they use heavier material for the frame that is why it's so heavy and it wastes a lot more gas than the Camaro and the automatic tranny on it is outdated for that price ... Even used the cheapest was 39

Again your wrong, the SRT is a whopping 1 MPG less than the SS with an extra 44-70 HP, and no, the frame is not much heavier and if it is it is simply because it is BIGGER), the weight is in the iron block of the Hemi period. Besides being down 1 gear please tell me how the automatic is a bad unit? it is not the newest out there, but holds it own easily in performance, drivability, and fuel economy. Sounds like you were looking at more heavily optioned ones. Basically getting a 2SS with just RS and NPP brings it to right at 40k (with options such as 1LE, Dusk, etc that can actually bring a SS tothe high 40, nearly 50k mark!) and you are still missing a LOT of features that are standard on the SRT. the SRT is not not overpriced by any means. Sounds like you were looking at ones with options (such as appearance options or Harman Kardon stereo which is so many levels above the best the Camaro offers it isn't even funny, not saying anything bad abotu the Camaro, just that it isn't comparable in this regard).

[1sikss]

Originally Posted by Stew

Again your wrong, the SRT is a whopping 1 MPG less than the SS with an extra 44-70 HP, and no, the frame is not much heavier and if it is it is simply because it is BIGGER), the weight is in the iron block of the Hemi period. Besides being down 1 gear please tell me how the automatic is a bad unit? it is not the newest out there, but holds it own easily in performance, drivability, and fuel economy. Sounds like you were looking at more heavily optioned ones. Basically getting a 2SS with just RS and NPP brings it to right at 40k (with options such as 1LE, Dusk, etc that can actually bring a SS tothe high 40, nearly 50k mark!) and you are still missing a LOT of features that are standard on the SRT. the SRT is not not overpriced by any means. Sounds like you were looking at ones with options (such as appearance options or Harman Kardon stereo which is so many levels above the best the Camaro offers it isn't even funny, not saying anything bad abotu the Camaro, just that it isn't comparable in this regard).

im not saying is the worst I'm just saying it needs more for the money... most camaro ss aren't over 42k.... a lot of the challengers srt8 on the lots were over 50 a lot were around 52-53 they didn't have many options that were under 50 if u think a little better upgrades on the brakes, stereo and on the engine is worth an extra 10+ grand then thats you... i would rather get a slightly used zl1 for 54 and have a way more advanced car on every aspect lol...... by the way i get up to 18-20 mpg from ppl wit challengers I've heard they barley get 14 thats a whopping 4+ less mpg than the camaro

[Stew]

Originally Posted by 1sikss

im not saying is the worst I'm just saying it needs more for the money... most camaro ss aren't over 42k.... a lot of the challengers srt8 on the lots were over 50 a lot were around 52-53 they didn't have many options that were under 50 if u think a little better upgrades on the brakes, stereo and on the engine is worth an extra 10+ grand then thats you... i would rather get a slightly used zl1 for 54 and have a way more advanced car on every aspect lol...... by the way i get up to 18-20 mpg from ppl wit challengers I've heard they barley get 14 thats a whopping 4+ less mpg than the camaro

Whoa, you can't even option an SRT up to 54k PERIOD, please say you are not counting dealer markup and in no way can you compare a bargain basement 1SS to an SRT8, facts is it is NOT in the same priceleague as a ZL1, not even close. It is in loaded 2SS territory PERIOD. and just upgraded stareo, brakes and engine? Again, you are missing a LOT of options there, the suspension is not only upgraded but a fully adjustable 3 mode setup, similar to the GT500 with the track package (or what is it callled?), push button start, heated steering wheel, not to mention the ability to hold a 5th person. 14 MPG? not even the old 6.1 got better milage than that. Do they drive everywhere constantly at WOT? The few people i know with them have no trouble averaging in the low 20s and even mid 20s on the highway. There is no way to account for driving styles, there is a 1 MPG differemce between the SS and SRT per the EPA and on the window sticker period and that is the best comparison.

[DRKnight1SS]

Originally Posted by Stew

... with options such as 1LE, Dusk, etc that can actually bring a SS tothe high 40, nearly 50k mark!..

Since when does a 1LE cost anywhere close to the high 40k mark? I think you also might have forgotten this is a Camaro forum and Mopar will always be subpar


=_=Chevy*Runs*Deep=_=

[Stew]

Originally Posted by DRKnight1SS

Since when does a 1LE cost anywhere close to the high 40k mark? I think you also might have forgotten this is a Camaro forum and Mopar will always be subpar


=_=Chevy*Runs*Deep=_=

Well, the high 40 is more the dusk ed, etc. 2SS 1LE is around 44k, and i can't fault that car and it is worth every penny. if ai was looking in that price range, it would fall to SRT or 1LE, just depends if I wanted luxury muscle at a bargain or balls to the wall handling and a well sorted performance bargain. IMHO, both are bargains, show me a car that offers everything in a coupe the Challenger SRT does for the price and do the same for the 1LE, you can't, period. WOuld have to go to something like a 100k plus M6 coupe to get close to the Challenger formula and would need an M3 for the 1LE equation (ok Boss is there with the 1LE, but it has it's own downsides).

[1sikss]

Originally Posted by Stew

Whoa, you can't even option an SRT up to 54k PERIOD, please say you are not counting dealer markup and in no way can you compare a bargain basement 1SS to an SRT8, facts is it is NOT in the same priceleague as a ZL1, not even close. It is in loaded 2SS territory PERIOD. and just upgraded stareo, brakes and engine? Again, you are missing a LOT of options there, the suspension is not only upgraded but a fully adjustable 3 mode setup, similar to the GT500 with the track package (or what is it callled?), push button start, heated steering wheel, not to mention the ability to hold a 5th person. 14 MPG? not even the old 6.1 got better milage than that. Do they drive everywhere constantly at WOT? The few people i know with them have no trouble averaging in the low 20s and even mid 20s on the highway. There is no way to account for driving styles, there is a 1 MPG differemce between the SS and SRT per the EPA and on the window sticker period and that is the best comparison.

do you even drive a challenger srt8 the old 6.1 was horrible on gas man i hope you drive one cause it seems u know too much lmao its a sloppy outdated car period and pricey go look up reviews from motor trend and any other place and you will know and true why is this up on a camaro forum if y'all don't like getting criticized about it them maybe it should get posted on here

[Stew]

Originally Posted by 1sikss

do you even drive a challenger srt8 the old 6.1 was horrible on gas man i hope you drive one cause it seems u know too much lmao its a sloppy outdated car period and pricey go look up reviews from motor trend and any other place and you will know and true why is this up on a camaro forum if y'all don't like getting criticized about it them maybe it should get posted on here

Do you drive a Challenger? Did you design the suspension? You realized it was heavily revised in 11 right???? It is a HUGE improvement over the 10 model and NO ONE who has driven or reviewed an 11 plus has actually compared them to BMWs in the driving and handlin experience. I think you the one guessing here and the one who has no experience.

[05stram]

I think my Challenger handles great. I have one with the track pack and the vehicle does as advertised, PLUS it came with tires that are meant for the consumer whereas the Camaro comes with summer only tires.

[07-SRT]

Originally Posted by 1sikss

do you even drive a challenger srt8 the old 6.1 was horrible on gas man i hope you drive one cause it seems u know too much lmao its a sloppy outdated car period and pricey go look up reviews from motor trend and any other place and you will know and true why is this up on a camaro forum if y'all don't like getting criticized about it them maybe it should get posted on here

Horrible??? I averaged 23 mpg from florida to ohio...... I have 2 6.1's to compare... for a pig that put 395 rwhp with tune, cai, exhaust imo is not bad on gas unless my foot is in it.....

[newmoon]

It's a loosing battle Stew. Folks have their mind set and you can't change them. I'll say it again I had a cam full bolt on SS, FFRP tuned 5.0, and a bone stock 392. The 392 is the superior car in every way and is worth the premium price that you pay over what a comparable 2SS would be. I know many in here chime in with the 1LE but I really could care less about handling, I want a car that screams down the 1/4 and in stoplight encounters. If it can take a corner well that's a bonus, and the 392 could. At this point I have been spoiled by the 392 and nothing less than another one or a automatic ZL1 is going to get me excited. But I have to wait and save up a few more $$$ before making my next move.

[Thrillz]

Originally Posted by newmoon

It's a loosing battle Stew. Folks have their mind set and you can't change them. I'll say it again I had a cam full bolt on SS, FFRP tuned 5.0, and a bone stock 392. The 392 is the superior car in every way and is worth the premium price that you pay over what a comparable 2SS would be. I know many in here chime in with the 1LE but I really could care less about handling, I want a car that screams down the 1/4 and in stoplight encounters. If it can take a corner well that's a bonus, and the 392 could. At this point I have been spoiled by the 392 and nothing less than another one or a automatic ZL1 is going to get me excited. But I have to wait and save up a few more $$$ before making my next move.

Well said.