Wing on a front wheel drive

[CamaroSkooter]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I find it odd that approximately 0 people complain about RWD cars with a front spliter, yet everyone seems to make quips about FWD's with a wing. I used to too, until I understood the physics involved. Now I reserve such comments to sub-200 hp cars that will never see a road course, which still covers the bulk of fwd cars with a wing.

A front splitter is equally beneficial to every vehicle, regardless of whether the front or rear (or all) wheels are transferring power to the ground.

The front splitter's sole purpose is to keep the front of the car glued to the ground at high speeds. If air gets under the front of any vehicle at higher speeds, the front lifts up and the effectiveness of the steering wheel is lessened.

I don't think anyone believes rear spoilers are "pointless" on a front-wheel drive vehicle. Rear downforce is just as important as front end downforce at high speeds. Where you get serious complaints is with the spoilers that look like they were designed to fly a small aircraft. And those are usually the most pointless when attached to a vehicle that could never even remotely come close to the kind of speed that would require such a monstrosity...

[MikeSVX]

Originally Posted by yzrider58

Factory or not, it's way too much spoiler

Believe it or not, that spoiler actually has a large impact on the STi. I was on a cruise with a Subaru club. There was an STi owner there that didn't have the spoiler. I got to talking to him about it. He had traded his trucklid and spoiler with an owner of a standard WRX, because he didn't like the look. He said it surprised him how much it decreased the rear traction of the car during cornering.


Of course that could be as much due to the weight loss as much as the down force. lol.

[MikeSVX]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

A front splitter is equally beneficial to every vehicle, regardless of whether the front or rear (or all) wheels are transferring power to the ground.

The front splitter's sole purpose is to keep the front of the car glued to the ground at high speeds. If air gets under the front of any vehicle at higher speeds, the front lifts up and the effectiveness of the steering wheel is lessened.

I don't think anyone believes rear spoilers are "pointless" on a front-wheel drive vehicle. Rear downforce is just as important as front end downforce at high speeds. Where you get serious complaints is with the spoilers that look like they were designed to fly a small aircraft. And those are usually the most pointless when attached to a vehicle that could never even remotely come close to the kind of speed that would require such a monstrosity...

I use to think that it took high speeds before the wings did anything too. I'm currently reading a book called "Racecar:Searching for the Limit in Formula SAE" (free on Kindle). It's about a college team building a race car. They talk about adding wings to their design. Sandard thinking was that the wings wouldn't have any effect at speeds under 35mph, but their actually testing at an autocross showed that they had some effect even at slower speeds.

And, the effect has nothing to do with which wheels are the drive wheels. The traction benefit is in the cornering speeds of the car. The down force generated by the wings increase the traction available to the tires. That said, you can't just slap a wing on the trunk and call it good. You need to increase the down force on the front of the vehicle as well. In fact I would consider the front a little more important then the rear, if your iterested in anything other then going straight. Increasing down force on the rear will cause your rear suspesion to compress more. This can result in more air getting under the front of the car. If you haven't done something to compesate for that (stronger rear springs, or front lip). The front end will lift causing a lose of steering grip. The STi (pictured) has a different front facia then the standard WRX to reduce the air going under the front of the vehicle. How is the STi wing any different the the wing on the ACR Viper? Granted the wing on the ACR is $10,000 carbon fiber racing unit, but the basic function is the same.

[MikeSVX]

If you don't car about looks, wings work. It don't matter if it's FWD, AWD, or RWD. The Scion pictured set some fastest times at a time attack even a few years back.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

A front splitter is equally beneficial to every vehicle, regardless of whether the front or rear (or all) wheels are transferring power to the ground.

The front splitter's sole purpose is to keep the front of the car glued to the ground at high speeds. If air gets under the front of any vehicle at higher speeds, the front lifts up and the effectiveness of the steering wheel is lessened.

I don't think anyone believes rear spoilers are "pointless" on a front-wheel drive vehicle. Rear downforce is just as important as front end downforce at high speeds. Where you get serious complaints is with the spoilers that look like they were designed to fly a small aircraft. And those are usually the most pointless when attached to a vehicle that could never even remotely come close to the kind of speed that would require such a monstrosity...

Thats kinda the point I was getting at. Everybody accepts that a front splitter helps handling, yet somehow a lot of people think that the only reason why a car should have a rear spoiler or wing would be to give the drive wheels more traction to help it accelerate. The real reason is usually to either improve the airflow & reduce drag (like on the Camaro) or to add a bit of rear end grip to fight oversteer.

Originally Posted by MikeSVX

I use to think that it took high speeds before the wings did anything too. I'm currently reading a book called "Racecar:Searching for the Limit in Formula SAE" (free on Kindle). It's about a college team building a race car. They talk about adding wings to their design. Sandard thinking was that the wings wouldn't have any effect at speeds under 35mph, but their actually testing at an autocross showed that they had some effect even at slower speeds.

And, the effect has nothing to do with which wheels are the drive wheels. The traction benefit is in the cornering speeds of the car. The down force generated by the wings increase the traction available to the tires. That said, you can't just slap a wing on the trunk and call it good. You need to increase the down force on the front of the vehicle as well. In fact I would consider the front a little more important then the rear, if your iterested in anything other then going straight. Increasing down force on the rear will cause your rear suspesion to compress more. This can result in more air getting under the front of the car. If you haven't done something to compesate for that (stronger rear springs, or front lip). The front end will lift causing a lose of steering grip. The STi (pictured) has a different front facia then the standard WRX to reduce the air going under the front of the vehicle. How is the STi wing any different the the wing on the ACR Viper? Granted the wing on the ACR is $10,000 carbon fiber racing unit, but the basic function is the same.

It also depends on how aggressive the design of the wing is. You can have one that is shaped such that it provides 200 lbs of downforce at 20 mph, while another needs to be doing 200 mph to do the same thing. Of course, if you've got a wing that provides a lot of downforce at low speed it will also cause an absolutely huge amount of downforce at highspeed -and a ton of drag too.

[FenwickHockey65]

There are some cars that just need a spoiler to look halfway decent.

Case in point...





And let it be known that I absolutely LOVED my rental Impalas. But it just looks unfinished without the spoiler.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

There are some cars that just need a spoiler to look halfway decent.

Case in point...





And let it be known that I absolutely LOVED my rental Impalas. But it just looks unfinished without the spoiler.

I find that Grand Am's and Sunfires from a decade or so ago are like that as well. Well, the Sunfires with the 'normal' spoiler, not that stupid little semi-circle thing right behind the back window

[rez333]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

There are some cars that just need a spoiler to look halfway decent.

Case in point...





And let it be known that I absolutely LOVED my rental Impalas. But it just looks unfinished without the spoiler.

Disagree. That car looks ridiculous. You know, a Versace dress generally looks amazing, but on the wrong person like say Hulk Hogan? Ridiculous.

That car looks like the equivalent of a big fat person in yoga/bike shorts. Not sporty, just ridiculous.

[trewyn15]

The STI's spoiler is race inspired for rally, so it's actually functional, just not in normal daily uses.

Feel free to hate ton this downforce for the racecar..

[trewyn15]

Originally Posted by rez333

Disagree. That car looks ridiculous. You know, a Versace dress generally looks amazing, but on the wrong person like say Hulk Hogan? Ridiculous.

That car looks like the equivalent of a big fat person in yoga/bike shorts. Not sporty, just ridiculous.

respectfully disagree 100%