GM Needs to take note!

[Meltdownaverted]

Originally Posted by Stew

Sounds like my GM experiences. My grand Prix was far and away the WORST car I ever owned reliability wise. In roughly 1 year had to replace cv joints, rebild transmission, driver's side window switch quit, engine started leaking oil, AC went out, speakers in the "wonderful" bose stereo would go in and out, and it is the only car I have had that the interior literally started falling apart in my hands...... my b-bodies were good, but not without issues, had my roadmaster for a year and by 80k miles (bought with 65k 1 owner doctor's car) I had to replace the thermostat because of overheating and had a leaky air spring, not to mention the power steering failed. My 96 Caprice which was one of my favorites, had a fuel pump go bad, ball joints, the window tracks break, and the freaking crappy coolant clogged the heater hoses. My parents 00 Regal is barely better than the GTP, only because the transmission hasn't went out, though it has given them a loud thunk while shifting since they had it. Sooooooo.

Just have to point out its 2013...talking about reliability of new vehicles and then using a bunch of vehicles more then 13 years old to make you point......your argument is invalid

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Meltdownaverted

Just have to point out its 2013...talking about reliability of new vehicles and then using a bunch of vehicles more then 13 years old to make you point......your argument is invalid

Agree...everyone does it too.

Unfortunently domestic brands need to have a good 5 - 10 year run at the very least I think before that sigma of domestic quality sucking versus the imports goes away.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Meltdownaverted

Just have to point out its 2013...talking about reliability of new vehicles and then using a bunch of vehicles more then 13 years old to make you point......your argument is invalid

Pay attention, that is EXACTLYwhat everyone else was doing, so my argument is just as relevant, or not more so because mine were actually MY experiences....

[willhe64]

Yes, your argument is just as relevant, meaning not relevant at all, just like theirs.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by willhe64

Yes, your argument is just as relevant, meaning not relevant at all, just like theirs.

lol, so, you agree GM Chrysler and GM are just as reliable as each other then?

Or would all the major issues my brother's 09 CTS has had count? Or comparable lack of issues my considerably higher milage 07 Patriot has had in comparison? just need you to clear up what is a valid argument here.

thanks.

[Number 3]

First, you can't generalize these conversations with a single data point.

Yes, there are people that have had huge problems with their cars domestic and imported.

I've had so many GM cars that were problem free or nearly proble free, but that doesn't mean everyone else has had that experience too.

If you want to use data, which you have to do for this discussion, go to JD Power and Consumer Reports. Those are slightly flawed, but you can at least make some data based comparisons.

Otherwise we can have discussion after discussion on a data point of 1.

[Meltdownaverted]

Originally Posted by Number 3

First, you can't generalize these conversations with a single data point.

Yes, there are people that have had huge problems with their cars domestic and imported.

I've had so many GM cars that were problem free or nearly proble free, but that doesn't mean everyone else has had that experience too.

If you want to use data, which you have to do for this discussion, go to JD Power and Consumer Reports. Those are slightly flawed, but you can at least make some data based comparisons.

Otherwise we can have discussion after discussion on a data point of 1.

^^^^what he said...

Some people have wonderful experiences some have horrible....most are in between. Regardless of if I always agrees with JD power or Consumer reports they at least survey enough I get a fair idea.

Oh and I have to ask regarding the first post what the heck does a Jeep Grand Cherokee have to Do with a Tahoe or Yukon? They are completely different sizes they don't really compete

[Stew]

Too many problems with consumer reports and JD power. When knock a cars reliability ratings down because people don't understand how to work an entertainment system " cough J D Power cough" , or automatically give a manufacturer good ratings ("cough Toyota and Consumer Reports cough" then I can't even take them as a reliable source. Fact is most every manufacturer today is roughly the same when cut through the BS.

[05stram]

Originally Posted by Stew

Too many problems with consumer reports and JD power. When knock a cars reliability ratings down because people don't understand how to work an entertainment system " cough J D Power cough" , or automatically give a manufacturer good ratings ("cough Toyota and Consumer Reports cough" then I can't even take them as a reliable source. Fact is most every manufacturer today is roughly the same when cut through the BS.

Haven't both been caught up in scandals as far as their ratings in the last few years?

One rated the Silverado a buy but then turned around and hosed the Sierra and the only difference between the two at the time was hanging sheet metal. Or maybe it was the other way around, I forget but I found that intriguing.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Stew

Too many problems with consumer reports and JD power. When knock a cars reliability ratings down because people don't understand how to work an entertainment system " cough J D Power cough" , or automatically give a manufacturer good ratings ("cough Toyota and Consumer Reports cough" then I can't even take them as a reliable source. Fact is most every manufacturer today is roughly the same when cut through the BS.

Agreed, as I said, there are problems with both.

For example you don't even need to own the car in order to rate it for Consumer Reports.

But all things being equal, it is generally a reasonable comparison.

CR for example has 3 parts Reliability (judged by the readers) Performance (judged by the magazine) and Safety (judged by content and government ratings I believe). So, yes, CR rates Sync badly and for a lot of people that is pretty much spot on.

JDP has issues as well, but for the most part it is only owner review of the products. Are there cases where a Regal and Century off of the old W-car had wildly different results? You bet. But the Regal had a different customer base and rated what was generally an identical car except for seats, engine and chassis tuning much better because the customer base was different than the other car.

But if you discount what all of the OEMs now accept as the standard you are left with what is the argument of single data points and from my experience........................that gets you know where.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by 05stram

Haven't both been caught up in scandals as far as their ratings in the last few years?

One rated the Silverado a buy but then turned around and hosed the Sierra and the only difference between the two at the time was hanging sheet metal. Or maybe it was the other way around, I forget but I found that intriguing.

Exactly, it happens over and over again especially with CR. Back in 96 they had the Chrysler version of the LH cars as best buys, but not the Dodge and Eagle version. Only difference was sheetmetal. Same drivetrain, platform, suspension, etc and all built at the same factory.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Agreed, as I said, there are problems with both.

For example you don't even need to own the car in order to rate it for Consumer Reports.

But all things being equal, it is generally a reasonable comparison.

CR for example has 3 parts Reliability (judged by the readers) Performance (judged by the magazine) and Safety (judged by content and government ratings I believe). So, yes, CR rates Sync badly and for a lot of people that is pretty much spot on.

JDP has issues as well, but for the most part it is only owner review of the products. Are there cases where a Regal and Century off of the old W-car had wildly different results? You bet. But the Regal had a different customer base and rated what was generally an identical car except for seats, engine and chassis tuning much better because the customer base was different than the other car.

But if you discount what all of the OEMs now accept as the standard you are left with what is the argument of single data points and from my experience........................that gets you know where.

You kind of proved my points Neither is a REAL indicatior of a manufactuers actually RELIABILITY. Someone not knowing how to use synce does not mean there is anything unreliable about, just that they probably should have sipped that option. Then the fact that CR would basically HAVE to hav eignored their own surves when they admitted they gave all Toyotas recommended ratings automatically. And then there are the issues above about how 2 identical cars besides sheetmetal can be rated so differently.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Stew

You kind of proved my points Neither is a REAL indicatior of a manufactuers actually RELIABILITY. Someone not knowing how to use synce does not mean there is anything unreliable about, just that they probably should have sipped that option. Then the fact that CR would basically HAVE to hav eignored their own surves when they admitted they gave all Toyotas recommended ratings automatically. And then there are the issues above about how 2 identical cars besides sheetmetal can be rated so differently.

What the customer says shouldn't be questioned. GM spent years ignoring it just like you are now.

Sync shows up in the performance review by the magazine. But if a large number of customers say they don't like it should be considered real. Rationalizing that you are smarter than your customer is a slippery slope.

So just like my concern on single data point discussions.....just because you think Sync is awesome doesn't mean it's awesome for everyone else.


Btw not intending to argue I just have a lot of experience using both CR and JDP and I know the risks and rewards of using it.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Number 3

What the customer says shouldn't be questioned. GM spent years ignoring it just like you are now.

Sync shows up in the performance review by the magazine. But if a large number of customers say they don't like it should be considered real. Rationalizing that you are smarter than your customer is a slippery slope.

So just like my concern on single data point discussions.....just because you think Sync is awesome doesn't mean it's awesome for everyone else.


Btw not intending to argue I just have a lot of experience using both CR and JDP and I know the risks and rewards of using it.

I think you are misunderstanding me. Yes,. it may be a satisfaction issue and may drive down SATISFACTION, and shouldn't be ignored. My point is that is nothing to do with reliability of a car, dissatifaction maybe, but not reliability.