GM denies report of Chevy Volts rolling away with $49,000 loss on each

[km9v]

I think the Volt is a great car. It is a bit expensive & I don't think the car buying public is ready to spend that much on that kind of car. I don't think it is being marketed well. It's a range extended electric vehicle. The general public probably doesn't know exactly what that means. They probably just view it as a regular hybrid like the Prius.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

In order for them to admit they screwed up, they'd have to see the Volt as some sort of failure.

If they don't see that, then they have made two errors.

They have not corrected by sterilization, so they've made three errors.

They are flawed and imperfect and must execute their prime function.

ERROR? ERROR? FAULTY. FAUL-TY.

STERILIZE! STER-IL-IZE!

BOOM!

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by truth411

The report was totally bogus and already has been debunked. Its nothing more than spreading mis-information for political purposes and creating hits. The ignorant is going to read this bogus article and swear by it like its the bible. I must say the lies and mis-information deliberately spreaded about the volt for political browny points is disgusting. The irony is if Toyota created the volt, those same people lieing and bashing it, would be instead praising the volt.... Sigh....

I read he reports and the reported "debunking" and I believe the debunking looks more like spin to paper over a humiliating defeat.

If you have some links to actual factual debunking, then let me know. I'm not buying the "The more we sell the less they cost" crap. At the cost of production and the sticker price of the car that's like taking out a 1 million dollar loan and then paying it back $100 a year and bragging about paying down your loan.

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by truth411

Also you menchion the plug in prius being cheaper but completely DISMISS the fact that the volt is outselling the plugin prius by a wwide margin.

That's not necessarily a point in the Volt's favor. That even Toyota is struggling to sell a plug-in version of the Prius is an indication of just how small this market is.

And yes, I recognize that all cars take a period of time before the development costs are recouped, but that amount of time has to be small, and figured into the business plan. The Cruze has a short payback time as they sell in very high numbers. Problem with the Volt is the market and volumes are so low, the payback time is going to greatly exceed the actual production run.

So unless the Volt is going to go decades between changes, it's a money loser, and will be until they can figure out how to sell them in the hundreds of thousands. Given the availability of raw materials to make the batteries, and the very high cost of those batteries, I don't ever see that happening in any foreseeable time frame. Yes, cost will come down somewhat, but it will only be able to come down so much. Ultimately, the premium on this car is going to be too high to attract the volume of buyers they need, particularly when you factor in that the batteries will probably only last half to two-thirds as long as a conventional powertrain.

Now, if they can rebadge it as a Cadillac, and convince enough high end luxury buyers it is worth $70K or more, it might be a different story. But that in itself is a big if.

[matt55]

I could care less if GM loses their money on any car.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by matt55

I could care less if GM loses their money on any car.

How do you feel about them losing money taken from someone else on a car?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Since when can a company spend billions developing a next-generation car, and then expect to make money on just a few dozen thousand?

The entire premise of the article is flawed. You cannot track a car's profitability until whatever "break even" point has been reached with respect to development. I'm sure the first 10,000 Camaros didn't make a dent in its development costs, either...And what's more!!! One of the biggest goals of the Volt from the outset was NOT to be a profit power-house! It was to be the FIRST to develop a car of this caliber, and lay the foundations and infrastructure within the company for more like in the future. The things that GM has learned from Volt development has, I'm certain, been worth it alone!

I'm actually starting to get kind of disgusted with the way the media is treating the Volt. Like it, dislike it, and write about it...fine....but recently, I'm seeing foundation-less pot-shots like this one and it's not cool in the least.


Somewhere in the back of my mind, I can't help but think....Toyota developed the Prius around a decade ago, and everyone sang its praises as the next best thing in the automotive Industry. Nobody got hung up on the direct funding the company received from the Japanese gov't for the project...or the fact that Toyota "lost money" on the first batch that were sold.

But now...our own player has come up with something leaps and bounds more impressive...and all our media folks seem to care about it what new (and quite likely false) negative soundbite we can stew up for the Volt. Shame on them...and shame on us for feeding into it like lemmings.

[TheReaper]

Originally Posted by matt55

I could care less if GM loses their money on any car.

Don't you mean "our" money.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by TheReaper

Don't you mean "our" money.

I'm not sure he did...and I'm unclear why people still think it could be?

[truth411]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Since when can a company spend billions developing a next-generation car, and then expect to make money on just a few dozen thousand?

The entire premise of the article is flawed. You cannot track a car's profitability until whatever "break even" point has been reached with respect to development. I'm sure the first 10,000 Camaros didn't make a dent in its development costs, either...And what's more!!! One of the biggest goals of the Volt from the outset was NOT to be a profit power-house! It was to be the FIRST to develop a car of this caliber, and lay the foundations and infrastructure within the company for more like in the future. The things that GM has learned from Volt development has, I'm certain, been worth it alone!

I'm actually starting to get kind of disgusted with the way the media is treating the Volt. Like it, dislike it, and write about it...fine....but recently, I'm seeing foundation-less pot-shots like this one and it's not cool in the least.


Somewhere in the back of my mind, I can't help but think....Toyota developed the Prius around a decade ago, and everyone sang its praises as the next best thing in the automotive Industry. Nobody got hung up on the direct funding the company received from the Japanese gov't for the project...or the fact that Toyota "lost money" on the first batch that were sold.

But now...our own player has come up with something leaps and bounds more impressive...and all our media folks seem to care about it what new (and quite likely false) negative soundbite we can stew up for the Volt. Shame on them...and shame on us for feeding into it like lemmings.

But your just now being disgusted, Its been makeing me puke for over a year now...

[pgustavson]

I've been in product development for a long time, and it's totally bogus to include development costs in the production costs the way these articles are stating it. It costs $19K-$32K to build one. Whether GM will recoup the investment made in the development remains to be seen.

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

The entire premise of the article is flawed. You cannot track a car's profitability until whatever "break even" point has been reached with respect to development. I'm sure the first 10,000 Camaros didn't make a dent in its development costs, either...

As I tried to argue earlier, the Camaro and Volt are not the same car. The Camaro doesn't have to make a profit in the first few tens of thousands built because by the time the 5th gen production run is over, probably around a half million of them will have been made. In the case of the Volt, a few tens of thousands over the entire generation is going to be it.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Somewhere in the back of my mind, I can't help but think....Toyota developed the Prius around a decade ago, and everyone sang its praises as the next best thing in the automotive Industry. Nobody got hung up on the direct funding the company received from the Japanese gov't for the project...or the fact that Toyota "lost money" on the first batch that were sold.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

[TheReaper]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I'm not sure he did...and I'm unclear why people still think it could be?

It may not be yours but I consider it mine.

[matt55]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

How do you feel about them losing money taken from someone else on a car?

Originally Posted by TheReaper

Don't you mean "our" money.

Sarcasm ....
yes iam pissed very much that WE (the tax payer) are getting the big root on this.