Yay! GM to introduce 2 new pickups while ford makes only one.

[Bob Cosby]

You know what's best for you.

And I can be funny....based on what you wrote above though, I have nothing on you....

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by Bob Cosby

You know what's best for you.

And I can be funny....based on what you wrote above though, I have nothing on you....

facts got you down?

[C5RocksC5]

Why don't some of you guys put your $ where your mouth is, buy GM stocks. Anyone?

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by mickss

It`s a simple enough question to answer. Until recently the use of steel was necessary for making cars meet safety concerns for passenger safe crush zones in the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety`s test for head on and offset crash testing. But with the advancement in hydroforming technology for future automobile production those requirements can be met or exceeded as the technology has advanced. Before the use of hydroforming it was difficult to shape aluminum into complex shapes for automotive designers, that problem is no longer an issue. Hydroforming using Aluminum will be the process used for making future automotive parts as opposed to the traditional stamped die process currently being used. You can keep contending that aluminum is cost prohibitive but the fact that it can be recycled more cheaply and easily will make that argument a mute point of contention as the availability of aluminum rises by mining and recycling the price will decrease. Simple enough?

You keep going on and on about forming the metal body panels, etc. This is all fine, but someone is going to have to pay for all those shiny new hydroforming machines and it's not going to be the car companies. It will be the buyers of those cars paying for them.

In a perfect world, one fender is the same as another, but when it comes to steel vs. aluminum we're going to have to deal with weaker panels that damage more easily too. It will be really cool to have to take your car to the shop because you hit a junebug at 75MPH.

Aluminum has it's uses, but it makes a crappy unibody and a crappy skin.

[PalmerGA]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

It will be really cool to have to take your car to the shop because you hit a junebug at 75MPH.

[mickss]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

You keep going on and on about forming the metal body panels, etc. This is all fine, but someone is going to have to pay for all those shiny new hydroforming machines and it's not going to be the car companies. It will be the buyers of those cars paying for them.

In a perfect world, one fender is the same as another, but when it comes to steel vs. aluminum we're going to have to deal with weaker panels that damage more easily too. It will be really cool to have to take your car to the shop because you hit a junebug at 75MPH.

Aluminum has it's uses, but it makes a crappy unibody and a crappy skin.

First of all your 75 MPH June bug analogy might be right right if that June bug could side impact my car at that speed, but it can`t, if you`re referring to a front impact then may-be, but most cars like our Camaro`s have rubber front fascia.

As for Aluminum making a crappy unibody, pehaps you should contact the good folks who make Corvette`s and make them aware of that fact that their hydroformed aluminum frame with aluminum and magnesium is crap.
One other thing I neglected to point out, I realize that the Corvette is full frame design but that same technique can be used in portions of a unibody design.

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by big hammer

facts got you down?

Sorry, I just don't believe everything that someone writes on the internet. Such as what you write.

Perhaps you do?

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by mickss

First of all your 75 MPH June bug analogy might be right right if that June bug could side impact my car at that speed, but it can`t, if you`re referring to a front impact then may-be, but most cars like our Camaro`s have rubber front fascia.

As for Aluminum making a crappy unibody, pehaps you should contact the good folks who make Corvette`s and make them aware of that fact that their hydroformed aluminum frame with aluminum and magnesium is crap.
One other thing I neglected to point out, I realize that the Corvette is full frame design but that same technique can be used in portions of a unibody design.

Funny I was going to say the same thing about the June bug, that must be one fricking fast bug if it can fly 75 mph

[Bhobbs]

The Colorado/Canyon needs a V8 4x4 option. I wanted a Colorado before I started looking at buying a Camaro but didn't because the V8 model was only a RWD.

[Nvincent4708]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The Colorado/Canyon needs a V8 4x4 option. I wanted a Colorado before I started looking at buying a Camaro but didn't because the V8 model was only a RWD.

they have a v8 4x4 option

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Nvincent4708

they have a v8 4x4 option

That's weird. It's been a while but last time I tried to build one like that on Chevy's site, it wouldn't let me.

[Rhyder]

I prefer aluminum. Lighter so better gas mileage and quicker speeds, doesnt rust at every scratch. Easy as all get out to repair dents and mod compared to steel. The aluminum on my truck bed was pretty stinking sturdy as well, so even if its not technically as strong, nothing I threw in it did much to it.

As to safety, they make stronger frames, with directed callapse and air bags aplenty and many other new and nifty tricks, so I wouldnt say a sheet metal steel body would be any more safe in a crash, least not enough to make a big difference. Heck, it being heavier might get you in more accidents than an aluminum body would, you wouldnt be able to stop as quick in a heavier vehicle as you would a lighter one.

No unless your talking a couple inches of steel Im not sure what additional safety sheet metal would provide. Im not buying we use steel so our vehicles are better argument, in my opinion that would be a negative.......

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by mickss

First of all your 75 MPH June bug analogy might be right right if that June bug could side impact my car at that speed, but it can`t, if you`re referring to a front impact then may-be, but most cars like our Camaro`s have rubber front fascia.

As for Aluminum making a crappy unibody, pehaps you should contact the good folks who make Corvette`s and make them aware of that fact that their hydroformed aluminum frame with aluminum and magnesium is crap.
One other thing I neglected to point out, I realize that the Corvette is full frame design but that same technique can be used in portions of a unibody design.

This is no longer a discussion, since you have apparently run out of facts and have resorted to making up your own.

First of all, since you said "most cars have rubber front fascia" you conveniently left off the ones that don't. The vehicle in this discussion is the new F-150, so I would point out that in this image you see the hood and fenders around the headlamps is indeed metal.



Of course we are not limiting our discussion to only frontal impacts. I was just using that as an example. Aluminum doors and fenders will ding easier than steel too. Roofs and hoods and decklids will not withstand hail as well either.

Unless you are going to make those parts out of "rubber" too be prepared to suffer more damage. (note: the Camaro fascia is technically not rubber either)

Second of all, the Corvette uses a space frame construction technique which is very different than a unibody construction. The whole point of a unibody is that the frame is part of the body itself. If you get into an accident with a steel unibody, there is a good chance that the frame can be straightened and the repair is affordable. Aluminum is more easy to fracture under stress and therefore it is likely to be unsafe to straighten out a bent frame. Chances are a bent frame will total an aluminum car. As I said before, aluminum is not good for unibody construction.

Since the Corvette is a Space frame design, the frame pieces in many places can be repaired or replaced if they get broken, without having to replace whole body sections as mandated by unibody construction.

To further underscore my criticisms, please note that the C6 Corvettes use a STEEL frame. ONLY the higher priced Z06 and ZR1 models have an aluminum frame. If Aluminum was the preferred material, they would ALL be made from it. The high cost of manufacturing keeps it out of the standard Vette.

http://dana.com/Automotive_Systems/S...paceframe.aspx

Since the F-150 is a body on frame truck, it may lend itself to easier repair if the aluminum gets damaged than would a unibody car. Perhaps the BOF structure will need to be brought back for aluminum unibody vehicles.

Maybe aluminum fully boxed body on frame SUVs will be the wave of the future?

[Jason1320]

I think an all aluminum body truck is at least interesting enough to pursue solid R&D on it and if they're confident it works and at a competitive cost why not. Since it is the best-selling vehicle in NA I would hope they would research the hell out of it before they would switch for their own sake. I think most people would agree the benefits from the weight savings in fuel economy, performance, payload and towing capacities, etc. would be welcomed. Some of the possible drawbacks I see are the costs and durability, and as I see it if you save enough on fuel to offset initial costs that’s a winner. And for durability I have two thoughts, most highway tractor trucks have aluminum cabs (along with some composites depending on the make) and some have aluminum frames, and they last for millions of miles. Also many vehicles have incorporated aluminum panels for a while now and as processes advance they should become more durable.

Oh and FYI the blue F150 above would have an aluminum hood on it as all f150s since 2004 have had them, and the piece directly below the chromed plastic grill, that goes from seam to seam under the headlights is also plastic.

Jason