GM reaches deal with bondholders!!

[Tanner]

I just don't like all these government bailouts. William Durant was one of the leading horse drawn carraige makers when Henry Ford started building his first car. More than half of America was driving a Ford back then. What did Durant do? Instead of asking the government to bail him out, he adapted and overcame, he started GM!!

[dbotsfordtat]

Originally Posted by LabRat

"The deal is unlikely to allow GM to avoid bankruptcy, however. If anything, it might clear away potential obstacles to the government's plans to use bankruptcy as a way to turn around the nation's largest automaker.

As part of such a filing, GM would emerge with only its more profitable plants, brands, dealerships and contracts. GM's unprofitable plants, contracts and other liabilities that the company can no longer afford would be left behind in bankruptcy court."


So, being anal, here is what is going to pi55 me off.

We have to date pumped 20 Billion into GM.

Through this restructuring, we are committed to maybe as much as another 40-60 Billion dollars.

Now keeping in mind paragraph 2 above, if GM emerges from bankruptcy, closing U.S. plants in favor of Mexico, Canada and China, after taking all those U.S. Greenbacks……..then I'm done.

No Camaro.

No GM ever allowed in my garage again.

Ya vote with your dollar, and if the above happens, I'll be voting no.


LabRat


A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
-Thomas Jefferson

I agree with what you've written. It troubles me to no end that GM as an international company has been outsourcing American jobs for decades. Now as taxpayers we are forced to bail this corporation out and our money might very well increase the number of jobs sent to other countries? Its insane. I can't wrap my mind around this mess, is this just greed gone wild or an intentional effort to bankrupt our Country?

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Tanner

I just don't like all these government bailouts. William Durant was one of the leading horse drawn carraige makers when Henry Ford started building his first car. More than half of America was driving a Ford back then. What did Durant do? Instead of asking the government to bail him out, he adapted and overcame, he started GM!!

Lol... he also went bankrupt though.

[BigRigMike]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Lol... he also went bankrupt though.

He ended up living off a GM pension while he managed a bowling alley in Flint, MI. And i think the first time GM almost went bankrupt he was asked to leave the board by the banks.

[Tanner]

Let these companies go bankrupt. Let them restructure the union contracts. Let them close down dealerships they don't need. Let them do whatever they need to do to adapt and overcome. The strong will survive. The weak will fail. If we keep bailing out the weak and unproductive, we will fail as a country.

[vega$]

Originally Posted by BigRigMike

He ended up living off a GM pension while he managed a bowling alley in Flint, MI. And i think the first time GM almost went bankrupt he was asked to leave the board by the banks.

He was asked to leave the boards. Started Chevrolet Motors, and then bought enough shares of GM to regain control after the fact. Then lost it to another company. Chevrolet then also became apart of GM.
Then he started another company called Durant motors. But after 10 years, due to the stock market crash and the heart of the great depression the business failed..

then after all this he bought large quantity of stocks to help demonstrate to the public to be confident in the market..in which wasnt a great choice considering it didnt stop the market from falling and lost alot of money.



I believe Tanner's point was that just because they fail doesnt mean something new cant be started... as Durant did several times.

I dont want GM to fail though. Damn that would suck.

[arozar]

Originally Posted by Tanner

Let these companies go bankrupt. Let them restructure the union contracts. Let them close down dealerships they don't need. Let them do whatever they need to do to adapt and overcome. The strong will survive. The weak will fail. If we keep bailing out the weak and unproductive, we will fail as a country.

Amen to that, I just wish we could have practiced this a wile back. It could be over by know.

[mikelj]

It doesn't matter if GM reaches a deal with bond and debt holders, they still will have to seek protection in bankruptcy court and decale bankruptcy:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...Ik1EQD98FF31G0

And it will take time to get through it, as a result many things will be interrupted and halted, maybe even Camaro production, as it happened with Chrysler's plants.

[TheCaptain]

Originally Posted by renderinfo

Uhh, everything sounds like a dooms day scenario. How about this off-the-wall prediction?
GM declares bankruptcy
GM jettisons debt, unprofitable plants and dealers.
GM "rightsizes" jobs and logistics to become profitable (pessimists read "downsize")
GM continues to have an "international" presence, with plants and dealers everywhere, inc the US, but less than today of course
GM makes the right cars that people want to buy with the right dealerships in place to sell them fairly (this one is tough I realize)
GM becomes profitable (say like what... 2-4 years or less)
Stock goes up from 0 (easy prediction after bankruptcy)
GM starts upsizing, hiring more people and building more plants (4 years+ wildly optimistically)
US Treasury starts selling its stake (presumably earlier than waiting 4 years)
Bond holders get some return on their investment (after all they own stock and can buy more)
US Union Workers continue to get hired and stay employed (if all the above is true, this can be an easy guess)
Everyone (including the tax payer) is happy!
**snip**

Off my soapbox

See, this guy has a head on his shoulders. THIS makes sense. A lot of the other stuff you guys have been mumbling about doesn't.
But that's just logic... and an optimistic outlook.

[2010SLVRBULIT]

Ship 'em if they're built and SOLD! Delay no more!

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by Aperformance

The only thing saved here is the UAW's pension plan, payback time in care of the Obama administration. What happened to all the billions the fed's pumped in already... money wasted! Firing of CEO's, screwing of bond holders and the red carpet treatment for the UAW. They get 20% free and clear for getting Obama elected with millions in donations, sounds like a strong arm tactic by our government or should I say the mob..

I agree 100%

[LabRat]

Originally Posted by TheCaptain

See, this guy has a head on his shoulders. THIS makes sense. A lot of the other stuff you guys have been mumbling about doesn't.
But that's just logic... and an optimistic outlook.

He is pretty close!

Except for a couple of them.

1, the current stock goes to 0, or a 100% loss for anyone holding it. There IS no recovery.

2, the UAW ended up with about 18% on the current agreement (plus they agreed to keep open 2 out of like 18 plants that were on the chopping block), that is the UAW, not the workers, not the bond holders, just the UAW. But we know those guys are A number 1, and we don't have a thing to fret about (snicker).

3, with today's agreement, you can expect a large part of the GM brand to now come from their expansion into China over the next 5 years.

4, as of the next couple of weeks, watch the media exposure on wht the U.S. plant closings do to the parts supplier chain. After today it is going to start to look like a game of pick-up sticks..............pull the wrong one.......

LabRat

[Cessna510]

They need to stop making "deals" file for bankruptcy and come back in a good place.Oh ya and it's easy to criticize auto execs for flying around in private jets, but what about the politicians doing the same even though their "company" has more debt than any in the world.

[LabRat]

Originally Posted by LabRat

He is pretty close!

Except for a couple of them.

1, the current stock goes to 0, or a 100% loss for anyone holding it. There IS no recovery.

2, the UAW ended up with about 18% on the current agreement (plus they agreed to keep open 2 out of like 18 plants that were on the chopping block), that is the UAW, not the workers, not the bond holders, just the UAW. But we know those guys are A number 1, and we don't have a thing to fret about (snicker).

3, with today's agreement, you can expect a large part of the GM brand to now come from their expansion into China over the next 5 years.

4, as of the next couple of weeks, watch the media exposure on wht the U.S. plant closings do to the parts supplier chain. After today it is going to start to look like a game of pick-up sticks..............pull the wrong one.......

LabRat

Close!

http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/02/news...ion=2009060207