GM reaches deal with bondholders!!

[CamaroCrazy7]

whooooooooooo!!!

[LabRat]

"The deal is unlikely to allow GM to avoid bankruptcy, however. If anything, it might clear away potential obstacles to the government's plans to use bankruptcy as a way to turn around the nation's largest automaker.

As part of such a filing, GM would emerge with only its more profitable plants, brands, dealerships and contracts. GM's unprofitable plants, contracts and other liabilities that the company can no longer afford would be left behind in bankruptcy court."


So, being anal, here is what is going to pi55 me off.

We have to date pumped 20 Billion into GM.

Through this restructuring, we are committed to maybe as much as another 40-60 Billion dollars.

Now keeping in mind paragraph 2 above, if GM emerges from bankruptcy, closing U.S. plants in favor of Mexico, Canada and China, after taking all those U.S. Greenbacks……..then I'm done.

No Camaro.

No GM ever allowed in my garage again.

Ya vote with your dollar, and if the above happens, I'll be voting no.


LabRat


A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
-Thomas Jefferson

[bologdl]

GM Plant in Grand River,Plant Manager stated on air at FOX News web site that GM would continue to make cars during the Chapter 11 filing. Some plants are schedule to shut down during the normal shutdown next week but some are schedule to remain open. The hope is this also applies to the Canadian plant.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by arozar

No I don't think think that they give a rats ass about the Camaro, I'm saying that's all we seem to care about, what about the future for many generations to come?? If GM was to close there doors it would suck for a short time period, but do you think that would be the end of it, no more jobs forever? No! You know that some of the execs would start a new company with out all of the BS that GM is involved in now. The down turn would not be forever, but I don't think that the government should be involved, let the market decide. You can not have all of the legacy costs that GM has and survive, propping up a house of cards, is still just a house of cards.

yeah, I didn't live through a Great Depression, and I'd really rather not, thanks.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by LabRat

......Through this restructuring, we are committed to maybe as much as another 40-60 Billion dollars.

Did you read how that 40-60 billion is going to be paid back? 8 billion in cash and 2.5 billion in stock. That's it.

[3 SS's]

Originally Posted by LabRat

Now keeping in mind paragraph 2 above, if GM emerges from bankruptcy, closing U.S. plants in favor of Mexico, Canada and China, after taking all those U.S. Greenbacks……..then I'm done.


LabRat

Good point!!, but not sure anything will help at this point.:(

[PQ]

Originally Posted by arozar

That's not good news, the government gets 72.5%, and is providing 50 bill in financing!! The government dose not have money, that is our money!!! What the hell is good about that? If I wanted a government made vehicle I would move to Venezuela..... If you need government assistance, then close your doors. My kids and grand kids don't even get a say in the debt they will have to pay back. We are headed down the wrong path, for what?? A Camaro!!!! What would Ben Franklin think of this.(rolling over 100X).

Originally Posted by arozar

No I don't think think that they give a rats ass about the Camaro, I'm saying that's all we seem to care about, what about the future for many generations to come?? If GM was to close there doors it would suck for a short time period, but do you think that would be the end of it, no more jobs forever? No! You know that some of the execs would start a new company with out all of the BS that GM is involved in now. The down turn would not be forever, but I don't think that the government should be involved, let the market decide. You can not have all of the legacy costs that GM has and survive, propping up a house of cards, is still just a house of cards.

Originally Posted by Brokinarrow

yeah, I didn't live through a Great Depression, and I'd really rather not, thanks.

Well your kids will.
We can do it now and it be bad. Or, like we're doing, we can do it later and it be horrible. We've selfishly chose option 'B'

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by arozar

That's not good news, the government gets 72.5%, and is providing 50 bill in financing!! The government dose not have money, that is our money!!! What the hell is good about that? If I wanted a government made vehicle I would move to Venezuela..... If you need government assistance, then close your doors. My kids and grand kids don't even get a say in the debt they will have to pay back. We are headed down the wrong path, for what?? A Camaro!!!! What would Ben Franklin think of this.(rolling over 100X).

Don't get me started....

[Tanner]

Just don't let the UAW get their hands on another automobile company. That's like letting the fox watch the hen house. I can't wait to see how fast the next union contract with huge raises and bonuses of course, gets approved at Chrysler. Sad, very sad.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by irpq11

Well your kids will.
We can do it now and it be bad. Or, like we're doing, we can do it later and it be horrible. We've selfishly chose option 'B'

hmmm, well if that IS the case then yes, I agree, WE need to take responsibility and live with it. I guess we'll wait and see.... however, seeing human kind's track record with these type of decisions, I'm not surprised that option B was picked, sadly.

[Tanner]

Originally Posted by Aperformance

The only thing saved here is the UAW's pension plan, payback time in care of the Obama administration. What happened to all the billions the fed's pumped in already... money wasted! Firing of CEO's, screwing of bond holders and the red carpet treatment for the UAW. They get 20% free and clear for getting Obama elected with millions in donations, sounds like a strong arm tactic by our government or should I say the mob..

[renderinfo]

Uhh, everything sounds like a dooms day scenario. How about this off-the-wall prediction?
GM declares bankruptcy
GM jettisons debt, unprofitable plants and dealers.
GM "rightsizes" jobs and logistics to become profitable (pessimists read "downsize")
GM continues to have an "international" presence, with plants and dealers everywhere, inc the US, but less than today of course
GM makes the right cars that people want to buy with the right dealerships in place to sell them fairly (this one is tough I realize)
GM becomes profitable (say like what... 2-4 years or less)
Stock goes up from 0 (easy prediction after bankruptcy)
GM starts upsizing, hiring more people and building more plants (4 years+ wildly optimistically)
US Treasury starts selling its stake (presumably earlier than waiting 4 years)
Bond holders get some return on their investment (after all they own stock and can buy more)
US Union Workers continue to get hired and stay employed (if all the above is true, this can be an easy guess)
Everyone (including the tax payer) is happy!

This doesn't even assume GM will become the best or largest or "most" profitable, simply that from releasing it's choking debt, killing it's too big dealernetwork, and downsizing jobs initially allows GM to grow enough to pay everyone/thing back at least some of their losses, including Mr. Tax Payer.

If you don't assume all the above, the only alternative I see is GM liquidating, everyone getting paid off something extremely little (with Mr. Tax Payer out 20 B's and Evil Union totally destroyed) and other car manufacturers buying up GM brand assets, cherry picking. Do we really think Ford will pick up a lot of this stuff, or some other foriegn car maker. Do you guys really think that its not worth Mr. Tax payer supporting GM to get rid of it's debt? Bankruptcy is better?!? Sorry, I just don't get that. On any level. The only alternative I see is GM liquidating its assets and a ton of more unknown stuff that could happen to those assets, all of which may or MAY NOT benefit jobs, the economy, and Mr. Taxpayer for the US.

Off my soapbox

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Aperformance

It makes me sick that these unions are the biggest reason for GM's woes in the first place and the only cutbacks they agreed to was that they would'nt take a cost of living increase this year. How big of them... What happened to saving the auto industry with T.A.R.P. funds and saving or creating 3 million jobs. Sounds like a takeover while millions of jobs are lost in the private sector and the Gov's payroll increases.

I sure as hell wouldn't say that. Have you seen what a few members have been going through? There have been a lot of bad moves by GM management - bad dealerships, bad cars, bad marketing, bad financing and bad forcasting.

[irocnroll]

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

I just hope cars keep rollin down the assembly line!

They should. This is what I saw on Twitter.


cjaneczko@GMblogs If GM Enters Bankruptcy Protection, will production halt on their vehicles during the proceedings?
6 minutes ago from web in reply to GMblogs


GMblogs@cjaneczko - as we announced back in May, adjusting production to market demand. As demand increases, we'll ramp back up.
less than a minute ago from TweetDeck in reply to cjaneczko