2013 Mustang GT500 MEGA THREAD

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by A-little-perspective

LOWDOWN I edited your post. Sorry, but I just couldn't resist.

That's a LOT of "perspective"...and fairly "subjective", too...

Glad to see we're keeping you out o' the sandbox...care to share your shovel 'n pail?

mmmmmm...Sand Very Tasty...

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

You mean when the GT500 wins everyone from C5 will leave?

I called AAA (you know, John Force's sponsor) and asked for their input on your "request".

Here's what they sent me back:

[The Stig]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

I called AAA (you know, John Force's sponsor) and asked for their input on your "request".

Here's what they sent me back:

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

The ZL1 will outperform the 13 Shelby on the Motor Trend test too its a forgone conclusion that the ZL1 regardless of it having 100 less horsepower and weighing more is STILL faster around a road course and is a better handling car than the 13 Shelby every review has said this and the Motor Trend test will be no different. Theres too much tech in the ZL1 with the MRS the more complete car is the ZL1. Yeah for pure straight line performance and bragging rights the Shelby is the choice but for a complete all around performance car the ZL1 is the pick. The Shelby is more harsh on the road and the ZL1 rides better. This is also why Ford never released Nurburgring times it simply couldnt perform a faster lap there than the ZL1. If you want the BEST handling and decent straightline performance get the ZL1. If you want better straightline performance and a little less weight get the Shelby.

It's just amazing that the SVT crowd can't understand this. Again no surprise going into the comparison, the ZL1 is the better all around balanced car. It's now 2-0 for the Camaro in reviews and I am sure it will continue until MM&FF does a review, until then the SVT gang will cry foul, and question each and every comparison that their car comes in second. They simply can not believe that Chevy produced a car better balanced than the almighty SVT.

[FNBADAZ06]

Originally Posted by newmoon

It's just amazing that the SVT crowd can't understand this. Again no surprise going into the comparison, the ZL1 is the better all around balanced car. It's now 2-0 for the Camaro in reviews and I am sure it will continue until MM&FF does a review, until then the SVT gang will cry foul, and question each and every comparison that their car comes in second. They simply can not believe that Chevy produced a car better balanced than the almighty SVT.

I think (IMHO) from what I'm reading, they are slowly but surely concedeing the track reviews to the ZL1.....the subjective stuff can go either way. 99% of the GT500 ownership belongs in the "raw acceleration" camp.....I don't know how the ZL1 camp breaks out, but I certainly hear more people talking more about road manners and track proweness.

In the end....

The GT500 is the boulevard bruiser.
The ZL1 is the finesse and HPDE warrior.

It's just a matter of how you like your "muscle car" served up.

[C5RocksC5]

Originally Posted by FNBADAZ06

I think (IMHO) from what I'm reading, they are slowly but surely concedeing the track reviews to the ZL1.....the subjective stuff can go either way. 99% of the GT500 ownership belongs in the "raw acceleration" camp.....I don't know how the ZL1 camp breaks out, but I certainly hear more people talking more about road manners and track proweness.

In the end....

The GT500 is the boulevard bruiser.
The ZL1 is the finesse and HPDE warrior.

It's just a matter of how you like your "muscle car" served up.

I'll take both please. I wish I could

[FNBADAZ06]

Originally Posted by pdari

I'll take both please. I wish I could

Agreed....that would be the ultimate for true muscle car fans......I'd also add a SRT Challenger to the mix

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by FNBADAZ06

I think (IMHO) from what I'm reading, they are slowly but surely concedeing the track reviews to the ZL1.....the subjective stuff can go either way. 99% of the GT500 ownership belongs in the "raw acceleration" camp.....I don't know how the ZL1 camp breaks out, but I certainly hear more people talking more about road manners and track proweness.

In the end....

The GT500 is the boulevard bruiser.
The ZL1 is the finesse and HPDE warrior.

It's just a matter of how you like your "muscle car" served up.

Your above sums it up you have two differant choices: If your thing is street racing and 1/4 mile passes you have your car in the 500, if you like cruising and blasting through the curves with an occasional track outing, you have your car in the ZL1. Two great choices in my opinion and what fun would it be if they both had the same strengths and weaknesses.

[eolson]

The Edmunds article seemed clear and objective to me.

The data from the slalom and figure eight seem consistent with other sources. I didn't hear that the GT500 had excess sway or was unbelievably heavy feeling. The ZL1 simply can produce more G force in cornering while maintaining grip, and therefore is 1.8 mph faster in the slalom test. The ZL1 at Gingerman Raceway(2.4 miles) was .7 seconds faster in back to back tests.

This is objective information, and consistent. Now it can be compared directly to the big three magazine tests for consistency, and soon the real differences will be tangible by repetition.

Gingerman regulars are saying .7 seconds at that course run by one driver is not a large variance, as the slower to fast times of cars that run there 147 down to 134, depending on the car, the driver, and the drivers ability with particular cars varies the times a good deal. They consider a 145-146 OK. .7 seconds difference for a single driver needs to be repeated by other drivers.

I have no doubt the ZL1 is faster on the road courses, it's just verifying objective averages of how much at this point for me would be helpful and accurate, just as the 0-60 and 1/4 mile averages have been multiple to verify. Erik

[tt335ci03cobra]

I agree the zl1 is an awesome handler with great accel/speed. The gt500 is an awesome speed/accel with great handling.

Neither car is perfect but the cool thing is that the aftermarket is right there to make both cars awesome all around performers

[mlee]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

I agree the zl1 is an awesome handler with great accel/speed. The gt500 is an awesome speed/accel with great handling.

Neither car is perfect but the cool thing is that the aftermarket is right there to make both cars awesome all around performers

This is true and has been said many times in this thread... my take on it and a big reason I went ZL1 is modding the engine is cake compared to modding handling characteristics... JMO

[imstillhere]

the suspension on the zl1 is awesome

[tt335ci03cobra]

It handles really well. No contest.

I just read part 2 and 3 of automobiles review, not like it matters to anybody but the gt500 ran 11.78@125 clearly without powershifts. "no lift shifts like we could do in the zl1 would literally rip the linkage right out". Somebody tell these guys it's not rocket science to powershifts a car without a Wotbox haha. Guys have trapped 128-129 power shifting.

The zl1 pulled an impressive 12.38@114.7 Not gt500 fast but still mid 12's at close to 115. No slouch by any means. One of the slower times but it was humid. Both cars were on the same track, same day and shared/traded lanes.

Back in 01, the cobra was a much better track car but a little slower in a drag race vs an ss (13.4@105 cobra vs 13.3@107 ss; but the cobra was about 1.5 seconds faster on most road courses), now the cobra's actually the archaic solid axel car haha. It's da ja vu but backwards, only now handling isn't considered ricer and actually considered cool. Quarter miles are played out now since just about any car can run 10's with a turbo and slicks on a built bottom end for about $7k on a budget/garage build. It's easier to add power than it is to evolve handling. Grip comes easy but handling isn't just grip.

Track times show the gt500 is about 1/2 a second slower per mile on a race track but 6/10th and 8-10mph faster same strip/day. Still, today it just doesn't matter

That all said, the gt500 is great for an sra but the new one with an IRS and brand new chassis can't come soon enough. 202 mph and honest mid 11's at 125+ was a great send off but now let's see 7:30 ring times with 700hp, IRS, and 3500lbs! Camaro better be there too otherwise it'll be less exciting.

[eolson]

I agree, SVT wasn't willing to go more extreme with tires and more proper chassis(X- brace) and suspension stiffening and a Watts solution for lateral skip and slide in curves.

I don't think they'll be able to get any more compliance out of this platform.
It seems the 2012 GT500 handles at least as well for curves and agility, even though the added power and aero dynamics give the 2013 GT500 better top speed, they should have put the money into chassis and suspension handling IMO, and just strengthened the engine a bit on the 5.4, gone to an 11 psi pulley(585 flywheel HP), upgraded the breaks as they did, and put on wider tires.

Bottom line is that this platform is for drag racing, and I am looking forward to a real priority handling Mustang hopefully for 2015. I love the car, but it is time to give Mustang lovers a real IRS and all the modern goodies the ZL1 has.

I think for most of us, it is dishonest to say that you don't want great power, great handling and great braking out of our cars. Ford needs to stop making this car all about power, and get with it for 2015. Erik