Toyota: no meaning in being #1

[King Sun]

Originally Posted by chain777

I watched the Motortrend comparison recently, and thought it was well done. I don't have any brand loyalty, especially when it comes to economy cars. My top three picks mirrored those that Motortrend picked. I might have leaned towards the Focus over the Elantra, but that dual clutch transmission scares me. The Cruze, while a fine car, just doesn't do anything for me emotionally. It looks like an appliance with a nice interior, and while the power-train is efficient, it's also weak.

JMO, but watch for yourself and draw your own conclusions:





Anyway, the Japanese aren't the real threat right now, it's the Koreans. Both Hyundai and Kia are on a roll.






*just want to add. Look at the EPA fuel economy ratings compared to what these cars achieved in this test.

someone on here would tell you there the same smh.... but I do like the hyundais styling more.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by rodscamaro

Best-selling is really not the tell all, if you lower the price/interest rate enough people will bite. Here's my question, what does GM put out that is class leading among its own segment? I am looking at the magazines/reviews, (value included) all of them can’t be wrong.

I'm not saying they're wrong, just ... disconnected or perhaps misguided. They are paid to pick apart every single little detail. I don't know of a single person who sits in a car then immediately goes touching every single surface, analyzing the gaining on the plastic. But magazine reviewers do that each time the get into a new car. Most people sit down, adjust the seat, and manipulate the controls. They'll look at the dash layout sure, but few take the time nitpick every little detail. On test drives, normal buyers don't go and set up a bunch of pylons and do a slalom run to test the handling of a car. The average Joe will remember what the steering weight was like and that becomes their basis for how the handling felt. Right or wrong, its how most look at cars.

Now as for sales volume, if the Camaro didn't meet the needs & wants of buyers better than the Mustang or Challenger there is no way it could have out sold both those other cars without massive incentives. And yet, I do believe it has the lowest incentives of the 3. So no matter how many 2nd or 3rd place finishes it gets from magazines, GM's gotta be doin' something right with it. Similar story goes for the Cruze, only it has far more than 2 competitors. The Malibu has been building sales for years, opposite to the trend that a car is supposed to have.

Class leading within its own segment? Do you mean from magazine comparisons, not just simple metrics (like what Fen did) or sales (like what I mentioned)? Lets see, the HD pickups and the Volt instantly come to mind. The Lacrosse is probably up there too. No, not a single one of them is perfect in every way. But then ... no vehicle ever is.

[rodscamaro]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I'm not saying they're wrong, just ... disconnected or perhaps misguided. They are paid to pick apart every single little detail. I don't know of a single person who sits in a car then immediately goes touching every single surface, analyzing the gaining on the plastic. But magazine reviewers do that each time the get into a new car. Most people sit down, adjust the seat, and manipulate the controls. They'll look at the dash layout sure, but few take the time nitpick every little detail. On test drives, normal buyers don't go and set up a bunch of pylons and do a slalom run to test the handling of a car. The average Joe will remember what the steering weight was like and that becomes their basis for how the handling felt. Right or wrong, its how most look at cars.

Now as for sales volume, if the Camaro didn't meet the needs & wants of buyers better than the Mustang or Challenger there is no way it could have out sold both those other cars without massive incentives. And yet, I do believe it has the lowest incentives of the 3. So no matter how many 2nd or 3rd place finishes it gets from magazines, GM's gotta be doin' something right with it. Similar story goes for the Cruze, only it has far more than 2 competitors. The Malibu has been building sales for years, opposite to the trend that a car is supposed to have.

Class leading within its own segment? Do you mean from magazine comparisons, not just simple metrics (like what Fen did) or sales (like what I mentioned)? Lets see, the HD pickups and the Volt instantly come to mind. The Lacrosse is probably up there too. No, not a single one of them is perfect in every way. But then ... no vehicle ever is.

I agree with you, I think the Volt is innovative but I don’t think people are ready to buy it yet for lack of confidence or rather first year worries. I think Chevy trucks are also very popular, but they’re still behind in technology. Ford which has the twin turbo six and dodge rumoring about a smaller displacement turbo diesel. GM seems to be lagging in the small car segment namely the Aveo. I really don’t want to bash on GM because there doing pretty good but have a ways to go. Like I said, I purchased a Chevy Equinox last month and my wife and I are very happy with it.

I think some people aren’t listening, I’m not picking on GM, I just want to see them be the best they can be. Unfortunately it’s hard to compete with companies that have lower labor cost and I think GM is doing a good job considering. I hate to see jobs going out of the U.S. even Canada but that’s where we’re at.

P.S. It’s interesting driving on to a military base and seeing that Most vehicles are foreign, I just don’t get it, but if everyone purchased American we would still be driving those horrible vehicles from the late 70’s to mid-80’s. Sad really!!

[rodscamaro]

Originally Posted by chain777

I watched the Motortrend comparison recently, and thought it was well done. I don't have any brand loyalty, especially when it comes to economy cars. My top three picks mirrored those that Motortrend picked. I might have leaned towards the Focus over the Elantra, but that dual clutch transmission scares me. The Cruze, while a fine car, just doesn't do anything for me emotionally. It looks like an appliance with a nice interior, and while the power-train is efficient, it's also weak.

JMO, but watch for yourself and draw your own conclusions:





Anyway, the Japanese aren't the real threat right now, it's the Koreans. Both Hyundai and Kia are on a roll.






*just want to add. Look at the EPA fuel economy ratings compared to what these cars achieved in this test.

What they didn’t mention in the video is the Cruze came in like 5th or 6th in this comparison.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by rodscamaro

Look at the facts, the elantra was picked as a better car by far than the Cruze (Motor Trend). If GM gave 10 year 100,000 warranty’s they would go bankrupt again. Toyota Camry walked away from the Malibu in that comparison (Motor trend). Mustang rates higher than the Camaro both hard top and convertible. Heck, you can pick apart every vehicle GM has in their lineup. Why, I think they’ve made improvements over time but not class leading improvements. Hence, they are on par only, let’s see a birdy. Heck, you can pick apart every vehicle they have in there lineup. They really don't have one winner!! Think about it!!!

GM's won more awards for their vehicles than any other car company, and currently the Cruze is the best-selling compact on the market, in a highly competitive segment. Very similarly-positive comments can be said for most of their other vehicles.

I really think you need a trip to the dealer...because you are so off-base it's...sad, actually.

[rodscamaro]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

GM's won more awards for their vehicles than any other car company, and currently the Cruze is the best-selling compact on the market, in a highly competitive segment. Very similarly-positive comments can be said for most of their other vehicles.

I really think you need a trip to the dealer...because you are so off-base it's...sad, actually.

Ignorance is bliss!!!

I agree with you, I think the Volt is innovative but I don’t think people are ready to buy it yet for lack of confidence or rather first year worries. I think Chevy trucks are also very popular, but they’re still behind in technology. Ford which has the twin turbo six and dodge rumoring about a smaller displacement turbo diesel. GM seems to be lagging in the small car segment namely the Aveo. I really don’t want to bash on GM because there doing pretty good but have a ways to go. Like I said, I purchased a Chevy Equinox last month and my wife and I are very happy with it.

I think some people aren’t listening, I’m not picking on GM, I just want to see them be the best they can be. Unfortunately it’s hard to compete with companies that have lower labor cost and I think GM is doing a good job considering. I hate to see jobs going out of the U.S. even Canada but that’s where we’re at.

P.S. It’s interesting driving on to a military base and seeing that Most vehicles are foreign, I just don’t get it, but if everyone purchased American we would still be driving those horrible vehicles from the late 70’s to mid-80’s. Sad really!!

[One Mean Chevy]

REALLLLLYYYYY!!!

I guess they will be pulling all the 'We're number one for a reason' Commercials.

The Spotlight gets HOT doesn't it.

[rodscamaro]

Originally Posted by One Mean Chevy

REALLLLLYYYYY!!!

I guess they will be pulling all the 'Where number one for a reason' Commercials.

The Spotlight gets HOT doesn't it.

Yes!!!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by rodscamaro

Ignorance is bliss!!!I'm sure you're not talking about me...

I agree with you, I think the Volt is innovative but I don’t think people are ready to buy it yet for lack of confidence or rather first year worries. I think Chevy trucks are also very popular, but they’re still behind in technology. Ford which has the twin turbo six and dodge rumoring about a smaller displacement turbo diesel. GM seems to be lagging in the small car segment namely the Aveo. I really don’t want to bash on GM because there doing pretty good but have a ways to go. Like I said, I purchased a Chevy Equinox last month and my wife and I are very happy with it.
The Volt is an experiment and a statement. It does everything the other companies can't, and they did it FAST. But they knew from the beginning it wasn't going to sell like a Cruze or make them any money early on. I believe toyota was in a similar boat with the prius.

With regards to trucks and technology...I believe Chevy was the first to achieve 21 mpg hwy, and the only one to have a hybrid full-size truck...it may not be named something clever like "Ecoboost", but it's certainly what I'd call technology...

Aveo: See the 2012 Sonic. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

I'm very glad to hear you're enjoying the Equinox. I had the pleasure of renting one after it first came out and I was blown away!

I think some people aren’t listening, I’m not picking on GM, I just want to see them be the best they can be. Unfortunately it’s hard to compete with companies that have lower labor cost and I think GM is doing a good job considering.The good news is, the labor disparity is about closed. And the legacy costs are gone. All the cars and trucks coming out of the company from about the calendar year 2012 onward should reflect that nicely.

but if everyone purchased American we would still be driving those horrible vehicles from the late 70’s to mid-80’s. Sad really!!

I'd have to disagree...but that's a conversation for an entirely different thread.

[One Mean Chevy]

Originally Posted by One Mean Chevy

REALLLLLYYYYY!!!

I guess they will be pulling all the 'We're number one for a reason' Commercials.

The Spotlight gets HOT doesn't it.

New Commercial Tag Line

'We chose to no longer be number one for a reason'

[rodscamaro]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I'd have to disagree...but that's a conversation for an entirely different thread.

I agree with you, there's a lot on the horizon for GM and I'm excited about a lot of the new models.

I'm not saying your ignorant by any means,(the post you quoted was a statement I made out of frustration, it wasn't the premise I wanted to convey) I've been following this website for sometime now. I don't post to boost post counts like some do(not referring to you). I'm more of a listener!!!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by One Mean Chevy

New Commercial Tag Line

'We chose to no longer be number one for a reason'

Reason: "toyota: Moving you forward...even if you don't want to"

Originally Posted by rodscamaro

I agree with you, there's a lot on the horizon for GM and I'm excited about a lot of the new models.

I'm not saying your ignorant by any means,(the post you quoted was a statement I made out of frustration, it wasn't the premise I wanted to convey) I've been following this website for sometime now. I don't post to boost post counts like some do(not referring to you). I'm more of a listener!!!

Hey, listening is much wiser than talking sometimes!

(I've just got to learn how to pipe down...)

[ryan's camaro]

Can't blame Toyota. Their cars are pretty damn reliable and nicely finished, granted that they don't have the looks or power. American cars weren't always so dandy and great either. Cheap quality, unreliable, and bland until recently they've stepped up their game with better designs for the younger audiences.

[TOMS1SS]

Yeah phantom electronic gremlins causing flaming deaths of dozens of people and pointing the finger at everything but the real issue does that.

"Toyota, moving forward whether you want to or not."