Cadillac ATS to show how much GM learned from the BMW 3 Series

[derklug]

Electronics problems could be a killer for any premium brand car. Everybody is making high MPG powerfull drivetrains, but when all your doodads and gizmos don't work and you rack up numerous trips to the dealer, J.D. Powers takes notice. Even when everything works, if it isn't user friendly, you will get dinked by the auto critics and Consumers Reports:BMW's joystick controller, Ford's MyFord and MyLincoln systems.

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

And of course, weight. Approaching 4k pounds supposedly.

I find that hard to believe. If Alpha is coming in that heavy, they'd be better off to scrap it and stick with Zeta.

I don't see why the 6th gen Camaro can't come in under 3500lbs. 3500lbs isn't exactly light.

[Black5thgen]

Alpha needs to be > 3600 to be competative with the 3 series and the next gen mustang. 4K is unacceptable.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

I find that hard to believe. If Alpha is coming in that heavy, they'd be better off to scrap it and stick with Zeta.

I don't see why the 6th gen Camaro can't come in under 3500lbs. 3500lbs isn't exactly light.

3500 lbs is pretty light for an affordable rwd car with over 300 hp that seats more than 2 people. In fact, I think the only car that meets all that criteria is the Mustang V6. Give it an independant rear suspension and its over 3500.

I don't see how a 6th gen could possibly come in under 3500 lbs, unless GM does something stupid like eliminate the potential for a V8. Structure adds weight. Features and content add weight. Safety adds weight. Just moving to a smaller platform isn't some magic bullet. Cutting the wheel base by, lets say 9" and overall length by a foot isn't going to miraculously save hundreds of pounds. A few square feet of sheet steel don't weigh a whole lot. Its everything else in the car that adds weight, not the footprint itself.

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

Alpha needs to be > 3600 to be competative with the 3 series and the next gen mustang. 4K is unacceptable.

4000 is >3600

[truth411]

Here is the article from Gminsidenews about Alpha development woes.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...dreams-103001/

[2ndgenz28]

Originally Posted by truth411

Here is the article from Gminsidenews about Alpha development woes.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...dreams-103001/

last line is good.

"At last report the Cadillac ATS is still slated to launch in mid to late 2012 as a 2013 model-year vehicle."

which means don't buy the first gen, unless you like hanging out at the dealer

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 2ndgenz28

last line is good.

"At last report the Cadillac ATS is still slated to launch in mid to late 2012 as a 2013 model-year vehicle."

which means don't buy the first gen, unless you like hanging out at the dealer

Thats largely a thing of the past. While there are problems with new cars, usually the new generation is more reliable than the car it replaced even after they had several years to tweak and tinker with the old car.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

3500 lbs is pretty light for an affordable rwd car with over 300 hp that seats more than 2 people. In fact, I think the only car that meets all that criteria is the Mustang V6. Give it an independant rear suspension and its over 3500.

I don't see how a 6th gen could possibly come in under 3500 lbs, unless GM does something stupid like eliminate the potential for a V8. Structure adds weight. Features and content add weight. Safety adds weight. Just moving to a smaller platform isn't some magic bullet. Cutting the wheel base by, lets say 9" and overall length by a foot isn't going to miraculously save hundreds of pounds. A few square feet of sheet steel don't weigh a whole lot. Its everything else in the car that adds weight, not the footprint itself.


4000 is >3600

It's sad how heavy cars are getting due to electronics equipment and safety standards. My car weighs 34XX lbs with me in it and it's an AWD sedan with an extremely oversized, overweight transmission. Forged lightweight wheels would help shave some weight off these new cars, maybe move to lighter brake assemblies and suspension components. . . of course all of these add cost.

[2ndgenz28]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Thats largely a thing of the past. While there are problems with new cars, usually the new generation is more reliable than the car it replaced even after they had several years to tweak and tinker with the old car.

I mean 1st gen as in first year of the build.

version 1.0

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by truth411

Here is the article from Gminsidenews about Alpha development woes.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...dreams-103001/

So what that article is basically saying is that old GM never died, it just buried itself deeper within new GM where it was a little harder to see.

If that article is right, instead of doing a few things well, Alpha will do all things half-assed. So disappointing. Lots of potential wasted again.:(

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

So what that article is basically saying is that old GM never died, it just buried itself deeper within new GM where it was a little harder to see.

Be careful how you read things...the author of that article can be...."colorful" in his criticisms of the Camaro.Often times over-exaggerations make their way into the mix.

If that article is right, instead of doing a few things well, Alpha will do all things half-assed. So disappointing. Lots of potential wasted again.:(

Is it out yet? Are they done? No.

As if designing a chassis for multiple cars (all very different cars, btw) is going to be an easy task in the first place. The only people making drama here are the 'back-seat drivers'...who aren't really in the car, at all.

/mini-rant

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 2ndgenz28

I mean 1st gen as in first year of the build.

version 1.0

Yes, thats what I was refering to as well. When the new generation of a particular model arrives, it is typically more reliable than whatever it is that it replaces. ie, version 3.0 is more reliable and has fewer defects than version 2.6. So while there may still be bugs (there always are) there should be fewer than what there was in the mature design.