PSN down?!!! Hackers!!

[Steve Dallas]

Originally Posted by 2ndgenz28

What's that comon used word for a bunch of wrenches, hammers, screw drivers, sockets? = ^

He does have a very good point.

Sony has terms of service that you agree to any time you sign onto PSN. In that agreement, you're agreeing that they can modify the OS at any time.

When you bought the PS3, you could have used it stand alone without hooking into the network. However, by using PSN, you agreed to let them update the OS. That OS needs to be consistent for things like multiplayer games to work correctly.

You -did- check the agree box to their TOS, right? Because you could have chosen to not agree (and not get updated).

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by anthonyj9h

lol some people shouldnt even be aloud to give opinions since they are baised anyway....Sony can do whatever and whenever to there product as they see fit you sign that contract when you buy their product, and yes if they tuned it down to 400 hp because it is unsafe and legal matters are brought into the matter at hand they will and you will have to comply peroid. its amazing the freedom you think you have and the freedom that you do have. Dont like it? sue em see how far that gets you and find out how much paperwork and covered they are legally. Or you could do what these people are doing and commit a felony get caught and either work for the government and use those skills for something other than your baised opinions or go to prision either way it still doesnt get you anywhere and if they were half as smart as they thought they were they would realize this. Nope acting like a child and throwing a temper tantrum is more their style it still doesnt work and they know legal action isnt going to work either otherwise they would have taken this route. My opinion dont be mad because Sony is smarter than you and has every hole and and backdoor covered and is trying to make a great product for everyone and not some lazy fat ass porker who wants to cheat and say he is the COD GOD. Please, life is so much more than this and i love playing games but it isnt life dont treat it as such

Actually, Anonymous' attacks are having exactly the desired effect, and that is to draw attention to the issue. I didn't sign anything when I bought my ps3, did you? The terms of service agreement is one thing, but nowhere in their TOS do they say that by updating the firmware they are going to remove key features and advertised uses of the product. Video games are not the focus of the issue here, they're a small part. The problem is, for the thousands of people that bought original ps3s, it was advertised as a multi-os platform. Many people bought it specifically for that reason, myself included. When they took that feature out with firmware, they removed a key selling-point of the product. They didn't do it because customers were in danger and they sure as hell didn't do it because of hacking considering hacking has gotten far worse, not just from Anonymous. They did it because people were downloading ripped games and movies, taking away from their profits. This problem could have been rectified, or at least dampened, with more security and R&D, but instead they simply removed the entire feature, a feature I and many others paid for.

As for the 400hp example, you're dead wrong. In fact, there was a class action lawsuit against ford over the 1999 cobra not having the hp it was advertised to have and they had to recall the entire line to replace the exhaust system and bring out the power numbers they were advertising. I was sold a product advertised as a multi-os gaming platform and it's not any longer

I have a feeling some of you don't really understand what the multi-OS feature was to the ps3 originally. If they had discontinued the use of bluray on the platform, I bet you'd be singing a different tune.

[anthonyj9h]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Actually, Anonymous' attacks are having exactly the desired effect, and that is to draw attention to the issue. I didn't sign anything when I bought my ps3, did you? The terms of service agreement is one thing, but nowhere in their TOS do they say that by updating the firmware they are going to remove key features and advertised uses of the product. Video games are not the focus of the issue here, they're a small part. The problem is, for the thousands of people that bought original ps3s, it was advertised as a multi-os platform. Many people bought it specifically for that reason, myself included. When they took that feature out with firmware, they removed a key selling-point of the product. They didn't do it because customers were in danger and they sure as hell didn't do it because of hacking considering hacking has gotten far worse, not just from Anonymous. They did it because people were downloading ripped games and movies, taking away from their profits. This problem could have been rectified, or at least dampened, with more security and R&D, but instead they simply removed the entire feature, a feature I and many others paid for.

As for the 400hp example, you're dead wrong. In fact, there was a class action lawsuit against ford over the 1999 cobra not having the hp it was advertised to have and they had to recall the entire line to replace the exhaust system and bring out the power numbers they were advertising. I was sold a product advertised as a multi-os gaming platform and it's not any longer

I have a feeling some of you don't really understand what the multi-OS feature was to the ps3 originally. If they had discontinued the use of bluray on the platform, I bet you'd be singing a different tune.

And then? again it goes with the freedom you think you have and the freedom you actually have....you dont own the rights to the product you just bought just the possesion of its "physical" being, however if it was such a pressing matter why hasnt anyone sued or taken legal action and some action taken into place against this multi-billion dollar company and won....you alone think you have all the evidence but yet nothing is done from Sony to "fix" there so called false advertising. Your opinions about what a product should be and what it is and something is changed because of a security matter doesnt mean anything to them especially if it keeps making them money and a few voices are heard in the shadows. Get out of your own box.

[SleepWarz]

I think the problem is that pc gamers are tired of things being made for the console then ported back to the PC. We get neutred games with no content, requiring 0 day patches to fix CRITICAL issues. If annon can take down the console multiplayer segment, that would be absolutely gravy. Then maybe developers would again create games first on PC, where users can moderate their own experience and not require some matchmaking service to do it for you.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Uhhh, no it's not that simple. I bought the ps3 when linux capability was touted as one of it's features. This capability was then patched into submission by Sony. I bought a product that was supposed to do something, then they took away that capability without offering any kind of refund or replacement option. If you bought a camaro SS with 426hp, then they decided that tune wasn't safe and recalled them all to retune it with 400hp, wouldn't you be pissed?

Sure, the rights to the hardware and software are Sony's, but to alter a product's capabilities after purchase - that's bad business and shouldn't even be legal. If I had walked into best buy and been told, "in 6 months, you won't have linux or "otherOS" capability" I would have bought an xbox instead. They didn't just stop running otherOS on new ps3's they made a firmware update, which is required to play on PSN, which eliminated the capability.

Well in that case, Throw out: Ingame XMB, DNLA compatability, Netflix+ Hulu Plus+ Vudu apps, WMV+Divx compatability. ALL the features added since launch Nov. 2006 since we are currently on 3.60 Firmware. Also thats exactly what you agreed to when signed up for PSN and Xbox LIVE IS THE SAME!!!
Sony did not force you to upgrade to the firmware that take OS away, YOU AGREED to it, remeber you own the System thats it. (I know what you are about to say though)

1. Heres the deal when you buy the PS3 the Box is yours to do what you will but when you go online you have to play by sony's rules (its that way with all companys including Microsoft) since your using there services free of charge I might add on Sony's side.

2. You want to mod your PS3, Fine go ahead but you have to keep it offline (for obvious reasons) You want to take your PS3 online then you have to play by sony's rules. You own the Box but you don't own Sony's services or Future software that the PS3 and 360 plays until you purchase it.

Has it even occured to you guys (no offense) that sony was the ONLY console maker that even offered OS System, Ultimatley sony gave an inch and Hackers took a mile.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Actually, Anonymous' attacks are having exactly the desired effect, and that is to draw attention to the issue. I didn't sign anything when I bought my ps3, did you? The terms of service agreement is one thing, but nowhere in their TOS do they say that by updating the firmware they are going to remove key features and advertised uses of the product. Video games are not the focus of the issue here, they're a small part. The problem is, for the thousands of people that bought original ps3s, it was advertised as a multi-os platform. Many people bought it specifically for that reason, myself included. When they took that feature out with firmware, they removed a key selling-point of the product. They didn't do it because customers were in danger and they sure as hell didn't do it because of hacking considering hacking has gotten far worse, not just from Anonymous. They did it because people were downloading ripped games and movies, taking away from their profits. This problem could have been rectified, or at least dampened, with more security and R&D, but instead they simply removed the entire feature, a feature I and many others paid for.

As for the 400hp example, you're dead wrong. In fact, there was a class action lawsuit against ford over the 1999 cobra not having the hp it was advertised to have and they had to recall the entire line to replace the exhaust system and bring out the power numbers they were advertising. I was sold a product advertised as a multi-os gaming platform and it's not any longer

I have a feeling some of you don't really understand what the multi-OS feature was to the ps3 originally. If they had discontinued the use of bluray on the platform, I bet you'd be singing a different tune.

This entire Post is pure and its amazing how you support Cyber terrorism.
Hacker A: "Hey lets punish sony by takeing away gamers ability to play games"

Hacker B: "Briliant!!!"

the next day.

Customers/Gamers: "WTF I can't play anything!!"

[Slick1]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

It really is sad. They think they are showing off their "Skillz" how they are "l33t programmerz" Just a bunch of losers who if they were so "leet" would just get a job at a game company or some other company and make some money with their "skillz" instead of f-ing it up for the rest of us.



The whole Liunx thing understandably did piss people off. The PS3 on the box says you can install liunx and many people bought it for that, heck the USAF has a network of PS3's running Liunx they use as a supercomputer. Sony discovered people were pirating games through that feature and released a system update that blocked that feature. Basically if you don't install the update you can't access PSN, so people got pissed.

Yeah be mad, yeah maybe get a class action lawsuit going. But no instead these losers have to screw it up for the USERS instead. Thanks dicks.

Originally Posted by 2ndgenz28

It fighting the man, and the powers that be.

Not wanting to be told what you can and can't do with what you own.

Its the rum runners of a new age.

----

Though making a game for PC first makes them more secure, as you realize everyone has different stuff, and you can't restrict what they can do with it as much. And thus script kidd hacks to cheat at games is less ramped.

Then you port to lesser quality console.

It's not fighting the man. Anyone that bought PS3 knew it was the better console so there's not going to be a rash of kids going to buy xbox just cause some jerk took down PSN. They're not effecting Sony, they're effecting the people they should want as allies and alienating themselves further. Go buy a brand new game and try to go online with it tomorrow. When you're denied are you going to think "God bless these American heros" or are you going to think that it sucks to pay $60 for a game and want to play it only to be denied that some geek is having a hissy fit at your expense?

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Uhhh, no it's not that simple. I bought the ps3 when linux capability was touted as one of it's features. This capability was then patched into submission by Sony. I bought a product that was supposed to do something, then they took away that capability without offering any kind of refund or replacement option. If you bought a camaro SS with 426hp, then they decided that tune wasn't safe and recalled them all to retune it with 400hp, wouldn't you be pissed?

Sure, the rights to the hardware and software are Sony's, but to alter a product's capabilities after purchase - that's bad business and shouldn't even be legal. If I had walked into best buy and been told, "in 6 months, you won't have linux or "otherOS" capability" I would have bought an xbox instead. They didn't just stop running otherOS on new ps3's they made a firmware update, which is required to play on PSN, which eliminated the capability.

Ok that's a little better explanation of the situation (the removing advertised points not the HP comparison) but boo hoo. Sony offered it and people being idiots used it to do illegal things. Don't blame sony for taking it away, blame the guy pirating on it and forcing Sony's hand in the matter.

Don't get me wrong, I feel like a tool having to defend ANY big corporation but in this case it's a simple conclusion. If you lost your license for driving like a moron would you try to make sure that nobody could drive and say you were under the pretense that you could drive however you see fit even if it was illegally? And then consider your self some kind of crusader with anyone but your own selfish motives?

Originally Posted by SleepWarz

I think the problem is that pc gamers are tired of things being made for the console then ported back to the PC. We get neutred games with no content, requiring 0 day patches to fix CRITICAL issues. If annon can take down the console multiplayer segment, that would be absolutely gravy. Then maybe developers would again create games first on PC, where users can moderate their own experience and not require some matchmaking service to do it for you.

I understand your point because PS3 is hindered in the same way by xbox. The systems capabilities are not even utilized because it's not cost effective to model the game on the superior console and then water it down so the box can play. MW2 would have been a 10 hour story mode but the box couldn't handle it so everyone loses out. In this way I feel your frustration but at the same time (without any numbers to back it up) the consoles have to be pumping out more volume in games sold right?

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Actually, Anonymous' attacks are having exactly the desired effect, and that is to draw attention to the issue. I didn't sign anything when I bought my ps3, did you? The terms of service agreement is one thing, but nowhere in their TOS do they say that by updating the firmware they are going to remove key features and advertised uses of the product.

No you did sign it digitally by accepting it when you turned the system on and said Yes. And no the TOS doesn't specifically state that they will do as you say, what it DOES say that covers it and them is that they can update the firmware at any time which may affect the system operation. So yeah its covered in there.

Video games are not the focus of the issue here, they're a small part. The problem is, for the thousands of people that bought original ps3s, it was advertised as a multi-os platform. Many people bought it specifically for that reason, myself included. When they took that feature out with firmware, they removed a key selling-point of the product. They didn't do it because customers were in danger and they sure as hell didn't do it because of hacking considering hacking has gotten far worse, not just from Anonymous. They did it because people were downloading ripped games and movies, taking away from their profits. This problem could have been rectified, or at least dampened, with more security and R&D, but instead they simply removed the entire feature, a feature I and many others paid for.

I don't see the crime in them preventing people from stealing. Not only that, the complaints sony gets on the most hacked games are through the roof. People are not going to buy the system/play it if they know they can't go online and get a good fair game. And NEWS FLASH Sony isn't a public service they are doing this to make money. Last I checked you and I don't go to work for free either.

As for the 400hp example, you're dead wrong. In fact, there was a class action lawsuit against ford over the 1999 cobra not having the hp it was advertised to have and they had to recall the entire line to replace the exhaust system and bring out the power numbers they were advertising. I was sold a product advertised as a multi-os gaming platform and it's not any longer

I have a feeling some of you don't really understand what the multi-OS feature was to the ps3 originally. If they had discontinued the use of bluray on the platform, I bet you'd be singing a different tune.

I don't disagree that it sucks that they removed that feature. However if you wanted to keep your PS3 as a Liunx box you could just NOT do the PSN update and continue on. But if you want to do PSN then you have to play by their rules.

Another thing to take into account that you mention earlier is that they should have spent more time and R&D on stopping the hacks. Well lets see the system came out in 2006 and the block didn't happen till mid 2010 which means in 4 years of working at it, the hackers STILL found a way around every roadblock they put up. So finally they said forget it. They probably spent a boatload of cash trying to protect a feature that probably 1% of their installed base uses.

You want to blame someone, blame these losers who feel the need to hack the shit out of every game and steal shit all day long in the name of "justice" and an "open world". They aren't changing anything, companies aren't going to bow down to them. All they are doing is ****ing it up for the rest of us.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

No you did sign it digitally by accepting it when you turned the system on and said Yes. And no the TOS doesn't specifically state that they will do as you say, what it DOES say that covers it and them is that they can update the firmware at any time which may affect the system operation. So yeah its covered in there.



I don't see the crime in them preventing people from stealing. Not only that, the complaints sony gets on the most hacked games are through the roof. People are not going to buy the system/play it if they know they can't go online and get a good fair game. And NEWS FLASH Sony isn't a public service they are doing this to make money. Last I checked you and I don't go to work for free either.

I don't disagree that it sucks that they removed that feature. However if you wanted to keep your PS3 as a Liunx box you could just NOT do the PSN update and continue on. But if you want to do PSN then you have to play by their rules.

Another thing to take into account that you mention earlier is that they should have spent more time and R&D on stopping the hacks. Well lets see the system came out in 2006 and the block didn't happen till mid 2010 which means in 4 years of working at it, the hackers STILL found a way around every roadblock they put up. So finally they said forget it. They probably spent a boatload of cash trying to protect a feature that probably 1% of their installed base uses.

You want to blame someone, blame these losers who feel the need to hack the shit out of every game and steal shit all day long in the name of "justice" and an "open world". They aren't changing anything, companies aren't going to bow down to them. All they are doing is ****ing it up for the rest of us.

Yup, couldn't have said it better myself.

[Slick1]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

No you did sign it digitally by accepting it when you turned the system on and said Yes. And no the TOS doesn't specifically state that they will do as you say, what it DOES say that covers it and them is that they can update the firmware at any time which may affect the system operation. So yeah its covered in there.



I don't see the crime in them preventing people from stealing. Not only that, the complaints sony gets on the most hacked games are through the roof. People are not going to buy the system/play it if they know they can't go online and get a good fair game. And NEWS FLASH Sony isn't a public service they are doing this to make money. Last I checked you and I don't go to work for free either.



I don't disagree that it sucks that they removed that feature. However if you wanted to keep your PS3 as a Liunx box you could just NOT do the PSN update and continue on. But if you want to do PSN then you have to play by their rules.

Another thing to take into account that you mention earlier is that they should have spent more time and R&D on stopping the hacks. Well lets see the system came out in 2006 and the block didn't happen till mid 2010 which means in 4 years of working at it, the hackers STILL found a way around every roadblock they put up. So finally they said forget it. They probably spent a boatload of cash trying to protect a feature that probably 1% of their installed base uses.

You want to blame someone, blame these losers who feel the need to hack the shit out of every game and steal shit all day long in the name of "justice" and an "open world". They aren't changing anything, companies aren't going to bow down to them. All they are doing is ****ing it up for the rest of us.

Well said but I have a totally off topic question. We're allowed to drop F - bombs? I've been watching it around here cause I haven't seen too many curses

[2ndgenz28]

Originally Posted by Slick1

It's not fighting the man. Anyone that bought PS3 knew it was the better console so there's not going to be a rash of kids going to buy xbox just cause some jerk took down PSN. They're not effecting Sony, they're effecting the people they should want as allies and alienating themselves further. Go buy a brand new game and try to go online with it tomorrow. When you're denied are you going to think "God bless these American heros" or are you going to think that it sucks to pay $60 for a game and want to play it only to be denied that some geek is having a hissy fit at your expense?

Been there and done that, if you have been a hard core PC gamer since the early days you have been through it all and know how we fought for the same freedoms, why the big push for console where they can control everything like Apple with all the beyond reason restriction that they lost control over on PC as hackers n modders rule there too.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by truth411

Well in that case, Throw out: Ingame XMB, DNLA compatability, Netflix+ Hulu Plus+ Vudu apps, WMV+Divx compatability. ALL the features added since launch Nov. 2006 since we are currently on 3.60 Firmware. Also thats exactly what you agreed to when signed up for PSN and Xbox LIVE IS THE SAME!!!
Sony did not force you to upgrade to the firmware that take OS away, YOU AGREED to it, remeber you own the System thats it. (I know what you are about to say though)

1. Heres the deal when you buy the PS3 the Box is yours to do what you will but when you go online you have to play by sony's rules (its that way with all companys including Microsoft) since your using there services free of charge I might add on Sony's side.

2. You want to mod your PS3, Fine go ahead but you have to keep it offline (for obvious reasons) You want to take your PS3 online then you have to play by sony's rules. You own the Box but you don't own Sony's services or Future software that the PS3 and 360 plays until you purchase it.

Has it even occured to you guys (no offense) that sony was the ONLY console maker that even offered OS System, Ultimatley sony gave an inch and Hackers took a mile.

1. That's not how the firmware update works. If you buy any ps3 games after the release of the firmware update, they will also require you to update to that firmware, even to play in single player mode. Even most of the recent bluray releases require the firmware update to be played. Essentially, if you don't update it becomes a brick.

2. I don't want to mod my ps3. I want it to work as it was advertised to me. I never once said I agreed with the hacking now did I? Please, show me where I did. I said it's having exactly the intended effect of drawing attention. I want them to stop too so I can use my own ps3. My point is, Sony screwed a bunch of customers and that's why this hacking is going on, or at least that's what most of the hackers say is their reasoning.

Half of you don't care because you never used it and most of you probably don't even know what linux is, but I and many others purchased the ps3 specifically for certain uses that it simply can't do anymore. If they removed bluray playback this would be a completely different conversation, but it's exactly the same thing. They didn't make a progressive move to a new, improved version of 'other OS' like the xbox live examples, they completely eliminated the feature with no substitute. There are obviously some people that agree with me considering there have been a total of 8 class action lawsuits filed on the matter and one is still in the process

http://www.ps3news.com/PlayStation-3...lawsuit/page-4

[GbrilliantQ]

Sony hasn't said it was from hackers. I believe Sony took it down themselves based on a new firmware update that "might" let users use fake credit card numbers to purchase PSN items.

But thats just more rumors.




edit: This might be why it's down. - http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comme...ecom_the_real/

[MAGfuz]

I'm not too upset about it, as I have the Gears of War 3 beta on the 360 right now. Plus a bunch of Wii games I bought and have barely touched!

Still sucks though!