Not Good, GM wants another 16 or is it 9 Billion to Survive.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

To all of you saying that GM should just file chapter 11...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

This is a pretty good article and is what I've been saying. This is basically bankruptcy without the title of it that will lead sales off a cliff.

That's assuming that creditors will accept the entitiy to remain as knowing certain liabilities will be off the table. Not going to happen. If someone owed me a lot of money and had more assets than cash to pay me back, I would not settle for anything less than Ch 11. Why? Because I want everything on the table when discussing how I am going to be compensated. If I have to take a haircut, I want to be sure everyone takes a haircut.

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by Hylton

That's assuming that creditors will accept the entitiy to remain as knowing certain liabilities will be off the table. Not going to happen. If someone owed me a lot of money and had more assets than cash to pay me back, I would not settle for anything less than Ch 11. Why? Because I want everything on the table when discussing how I am going to be compensated. If I have to take a haircut, I want to be sure everyone takes a haircut.

I don't know the details (it's probably in the 117 page document) but my understanding is that they're already making this happen.

[Silver Streak]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

Right-to-work is laws that prevent union dues being mandatory for all employees of a trade or company.

I cannot speak for your trade but FL has higher than average national income. It just does. Wages haven't gone up in other states either soo....

Property tax went up because the "value" of your home went up. This was particularly a problem beachside or near the beaches (I see you live in NSB). Has your latest property tax gone down? I'm sure it will this year.

I don't want my state taking care of me or anyone else. That's my job. This value is intrinsic in the nature of Florida and Floridians. Notice that this is one of the last states with no income tax. We like the government to stay out of our business. Sadly, however, newer immigrants are causing these values to be lost.

Your evidence is anecdotal. The numbers paint a broader picture. I don't know when you lived elsewhere and here but you're comparing different times. The specific things you mentioned have changed dramatically here in the last few years due to external forces. It'll all level off. We're already seeing it. All the foreclosures were a necessary correction for the absurd housing market.

And his comment about common sense wasn't meant literally I'm sure. We definitely have our fair share of morons. But then again, they're mostly from the northeast

I have been in several trades here and have yet to be in one where I couldn't make more elsewhere. And the whole moron thing I'll take that as a J/K I hope!

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by Silver Streak

I have been in several trades here and have yet to be in one where I couldn't make more elsewhere. And the whole moron thing I'll take that as a J/K I hope!

I wasn't calling you a moron hah. Unless you're from the northeast (and yea, I'm just kidding).

[GrnMchin]

Originally Posted by Hylton

That's assuming that creditors will accept the entitiy to remain as knowing certain liabilities will be off the table. Not going to happen. If someone owed me a lot of money and had more assets than cash to pay me back, I would not settle for anything less than Ch 11. Why? Because I want everything on the table when discussing how I am going to be compensated. If I have to take a haircut, I want to be sure everyone takes a haircut.

Last I heard that's what they were trying to due, but the catch is the money isn't liquid so to get the money you get a loan or you sell of parts of the company and once that starts selling then you loose a lot more then just some assets. You need people to buy product and invest and no one at this time wants to own or buy from company that is on the edge of failing.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

To all of you saying that GM should just file chapter 11...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

This is a pretty good article and is what I've been saying. This is basically bankruptcy without the title of it that will lead sales off a cliff.

lol, bankruptcy without the title..lol.. This is what they are calling the bailout now..lol..

within the same article..

the Obama administration say that any financial aid given to the ailing U.S. automakers will come fully loaded with wrenching restructuring plans.

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by Supermans

lol, bankruptcy without the title..lol.. This is what they are calling the bailout now..lol..

within the same article..

the Obama administration say that any financial aid given to the ailing U.S. automakers will come fully loaded with wrenching restructuring plans.

And that's what GM has put a plan together to do... "wrenching restructuring".

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

And that's what GM has put a plan together to do... "wrenching restructuring".

"wrenching restructuring" - good thing that's so clearly defined...

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by Hylton

"wrenching restructuring" - good thing that's so clearly defined...

Heh. I'd consider ditching multiple brands and making a deal with the UAW pretty wrenching.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

Heh. I'd consider ditching multiple brands and making a deal with the UAW pretty wrenching.

I'd just call that good business decisions.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

And that's what GM has put a plan together to do... "wrenching restructuring".

And you want that power that GM currently has of putting a plan together to be taken away? Because that is what Obama's auto panel and yet to be appointed auto czar is going to do if another bailout is granted and GM signs themselves even further away into Government control. You argue that what GM is essentially asking for is a bankruptcy without the stigma of it being called a bankruptcy at the cost of giving away their company's freedom. I guess that worked out well when the Government took control of Fannie and Freddie Mac and made real smart decisions there.. I don't buy the argument that nobody will buy Chevy or GM brands if they file for Chapter 11.. I think the majority of people would be relieved that the Legacy costs and Union control and wages would be gone so that the company can finally compete with the other car manufacturers. And what makes you think all of us pure and true blooded Americans of all races and creeds are going to jump ship and buy Toyota and Nissan because of a bankruptcy. You have little faith in America my friend if you think that. I certainly would still continue to proudly buy American and I would imagine this would wake even more Americans up..

[Hylton]

^ Exactly. We want GM to be better going forward, not die a painful death. Just because GM goes CH11, does not mean we will all start buying something else.

[GrnMchin]

Originally Posted by Hylton

^ Exactly. We want GM to be better going forward, not die a painful death. Just because GM goes CH11, does not mean we will all start buying something else.

I have owned US car for a long time and am A GM die hard like most on this sight, but we are the few (GM loosing market shares to the Japans auto industry here in the US)) and I am not sure the rest of the US market would look at CH11 as favorable not to mention that most don't realize what CH11 has the potential to do. My fear is that it would only lead to CH7 and doom GM, not sure to many unknowns. The other half who are vested may sell off take the money and run before GM had the chance to recover dooming GM. Again unknown. I would like to believe that the share holder knows whats best, but again I could be wrong. I know when GM announced the end of Oldsmobile cars sat at the dealership here for about two years even at below cost.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by GrnMchin

I have owned US car for a long time and am A GM die hard like most on this sight, but we are the few (GM loosing market shares to the Japans auto industry here in the US)) and I am not sure the rest of the US market would look at CH11 as favorable not to mention that most don't realize what CH11 has the potential to do. My fear is that it would only lead to CH7 and doom GM, not sure to many unknowns. The other half who are vested may sell off take the money and run before GM had the chance to recover dooming GM. Again unknown. I would like to believe that the share holder knows whats best, but again I could be wrong. I know when GM announced the end of Oldsmobile cars sat at the dealership here for about two years even at below cost.

This will have to be one of GM's biggest jobs - educate the public. Market the products like never before and offer 7 to 10 year warranties which are government backed. There is a way to do this successfully.