Not Good, GM wants another 16 or is it 9 Billion to Survive.

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by Supermans

the strings attached that you are coming up with is exactly what is going to be mandated if the bailout money is given and the Union stays intact.

And if GM files Ch. 11, they will need even more bailout money and the union will not be disbanded but will get a whole new contract. The government (and likely UAW) will have even more control under ch 11 than they would without GM filing.

And that's a good read but he seems to think people would buy cars from a bankrupt company. They won't. If you consider that lost cash flow, GM would need absurd amounts of money to operate under ch 11 until they can convince car buyers that they can be trusted.

[GameOv3r]

This is so dumb...why is everyone still fighting over this? Now I'm 23 and I deff. don't know as much as most of you guys, but I know when to give up and just let things be. Whatever we say won't change what the government is doing right now. They never cared about us, and they won't now. Everything is always pawned off on the people. This is life...its a b*tch, you f*ck it, you have a cold one, and you leave...fast (and pay still while you're dead).

[GrnMchin]

Originally Posted by RT21

Huh?

GM has been loose money for years so when I say 5+ it's because we haven't been hearing about it because the losses where not that bad (profits low and losing market shares). In the past two years it's been in the millions and billions so it makes news.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by GameOv3r

This is so dumb...why is everyone still fighting over this? Now I'm 23 and I deff. don't know as much as most of you guys, but I know when to give up and just let things be. Whatever we say won't change what the government is doing right now. They never cared about us, and they won't now. Everything is always pawned off on the people. This is life...its a b*tch, you f*ck it, you have a cold one, and you leave...fast (and pay still while you're dead).

Never give up and never just let things be. This type of attitude leads to the Government running all over you. Remember, it is We the People... The Government is supposed to be made up of representatives we place who speak on our behalf. We live in a republic and not a democracy as well.

In the Pledge of Allegiance we all pledge allegiance to our Republic, not to a democracy. "Republic" is the proper description of our government, not "democracy." A republic and a democracy are identical in every aspect except one. In a republic the sovereignty is in each individual person. In a democracy the sovereignty is in the group.

Republic. That form of government in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whome those powers are specially delegated. [NOTE: The word "people" may be either plural or singular. In a republic the group only has advisory powers; the sovereign individual is free to reject the majority group-think. USA/exception: if 100% of a jury convicts, then the individual loses sovereignty and is subject to group-think as in a democracy.]

Democracy. That form of government in which the sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from a monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy. [NOTE: In a pure democracy, 51% beats 49%. In other words, the minority has no rights. The minority only has those privileges granted by the dictatorship of the majority.] Which is exactly how the bipartisan support for the 700 billion stimulus was handled by the way since zero Republicans supported it and 7 Democrats were against it in the house yet it passed without any Republican input and without the bill being read by anyone who passed it. This is simply a fact and should not be ignored as what happened. If we wanted a true bipartisan stimulus, the 48% of voters who voted Republican this election would have had a say in what went into the bill by at least 48% of it being the policies they would vote for and the other 52% being all Democrat policies. In this case we got 0% Republican input and support along with 0% conservative policy implimented. So you tell me how we are still a Republic at this point in time?

My point in bringing this up is simple education on our basic freedoms that so many of our men and woman have died fighting for. It is important information that I feel every kid your age should definitely know. Sadly I see too many kids in college who simply don't care and talk as you do. I'm not saying you don't care at all, just that you feel you have no power and that you can't make a difference. I just hope one day you'll understand why it isn't so dumb that we are discussing these very important issues.

[UCF w00t]

And don't think everyone has that attitude. I'm 23 as well sooo....

[GameOv3r]

Originally Posted by Supermans

Never give up and never just let things be. This type of attitude leads to the Government running all over you. Remember, it is We the People... The Government is supposed to be made up of representatives we place who speak on our behalf. We live in a republic and not a democracy as well.

In the Pledge of Allegiance we all pledge allegiance to our Republic, not to a democracy. "Republic" is the proper description of our government, not "democracy." A republic and a democracy are identical in every aspect except one. In a republic the sovereignty is in each individual person. In a democracy the sovereignty is in the group.

Republic. That form of government in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whome those powers are specially delegated. [NOTE: The word "people" may be either plural or singular. In a republic the group only has advisory powers; the sovereign individual is free to reject the majority group-think. USA/exception: if 100% of a jury convicts, then the individual loses sovereignty and is subject to group-think as in a democracy.]

Democracy. That form of government in which the sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from a monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy. [NOTE: In a pure democracy, 51% beats 49%. In other words, the minority has no rights. The minority only has those privileges granted by the dictatorship of the majority.] Which is exactly how the bipartisan support for the 700 billion stimulus was handled by the way since zero Republicans supported it and 7 Democrats were against it in the house yet it passed without any Republican input and without the bill being read by anyone who passed it. This is simply a fact and should not be ignored as what happened. If we wanted a true bipartisan stimulus, the 48% of voters who voted Republican this election would have had a say in what went into the bill by at least 48% of it being the policies they would vote for and the other 52% being all Democrat policies. In this case we got 0% Republican input and support along with 0% conservative policy implimented. So you tell me how we are still a Republic at this point in time?

My point in bringing this up is simple education on our basic freedoms that so many of our men and woman have died fighting for. It is important information that I feel every kid your age should definitely know. Sadly I see too many kids in college who simply don't care and talk as you do.. I just hope one day you'll understand why it isn't so dumb that we are discussing these very important issues.

I understand, somewhat. The government is just too corrupt though. It's so corrupt that many people have died fighting for the wrong thing, even though they thought personally it was the right thing. All it comes down to is gold. Republican or Democrat, they'll all forever pull the same bullsh*t. And if it's not our president, then whoever pulls his or her strings will pull the same bullsh*t, and for what? Everybody wants their piece of the pie...more cash for a$$

[PQ]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

And if GM files Ch. 11, they will need even more bailout money and the union will not be disbanded but will get a whole new contract. The government (and likely UAW) will have even more control under ch 11 than they would without GM filing.

And that's a good read but he seems to think people would buy cars from a bankrupt company. They won't. If you consider that lost cash flow, GM would need absurd amounts of money to operate under ch 11 until they can convince car buyers that they can be trusted.

people will either buy or they won't. The gov. Has allready shown a willingness to keep the American auto industry alive. People would buy even in a chapter 11 situation. I know I would. Especialy in this situation. The Rommeys reputation is second to none. Though he didn't win the nomination he was the best candidate of them all. A financial dynamo. That article has more credibility than any article that says "leading economists". Romney put his name behind that and his experience speaks for it's self. We missed a bel of an oportunity by losing him as a candidate.

[Caliman93230]

now that where becoming a socialist country the first thing i will miss is freedom of speech.

[DkknightX]

Alright, enough of this crap. GM seriously needs to file Chapter 11 and get this mess over with. File Chapter 11, break the Union and start from scratch. I'm all for Unions but I think these employees need to realize what the hell is going on and tell their Union representatives that they are willing to cooperate in any way possible. If GM keeps paying out these 100% pensions and full medical to every employee, GM is going to be asking for a bailout every 6 months. Concessions need to be made in these difficult times and if you file Chapter 11, the Union can't do a damn thing about it. Too much power for far too long and how dare GM even mention buzzing of a "Z-28" right now. Shame on them! My business doesn't get bailed out and GM gets bailed out several times already and is seeking more?! F that! Yeah, Unions have been important and respected over the years, but I think the auto Unions are as corrupt as Major League Baseballs Union. Time to break it and save some f'ing money! Provide benefits when you can afford it and if it doesn't hurt the business. It is still Corporate GM's fault that all this happened, but the workers have to realize that if they are hurting their employer and isn't helping the situation, be prepared to accept less, or get fired and be thankful you have a job!

[Caliman93230]

Originally Posted by DkknightX

Alright, enough of this crap. GM seriously needs to file Chapter 11 and get this mess over with. File Chapter 11, break the Union and start from scratch. I'm all for Unions but I think these employees need to realize what the hell is going on and tell their Union representatives that they are willing to cooperate in any way possible. If GM keeps paying out these 100% pensions and full medical to every employee, GM is going to be asking for a bailout every 6 months. Concessions need to be made in these difficult times and if you file Chapter 11, the Union can't do a damn thing about it. Too much power for far too long and how dare GM even mention buzzing of a "Z-28" right now. Shame on them! My business doesn't get bailed out and GM gets bailed out several times already and is seeking more?! F that! Yeah, Unions have been important and respected over the years, but I think the auto Unions are as corrupt as Major League Baseballs Union. Time to break it and save some f'ing money! Provide benefits when you can afford it and if it doesn't hurt the business. It is still Corporate GM's fault that all this happened, but the workers have to realize that if they are hurting their employer and isn't helping the situation, be prepared to accept less, or get fired and be thankful you have a job!

pssss pssss the unions aka mafias don't care if gm goes under they will look at other business to exploit.

[DkknightX]

This is true, but GM can pwn the Sopranos, but they need 16 Billion to do it!

[Caliman93230]

Originally Posted by DkknightX

This is true, but GM can pwn the Sopranos, but they need 16 Billion to do it!

16 bill try 30 bill +

[Silver Streak]

Originally Posted by irpq11

people will either buy or they won't. The gov. Has allready shown a willingness to keep the American auto industry alive. People would buy even in a chapter 11 situation. I know I would. Especialy in this situation. The Rommeys reputation is second to none. Though he didn't win the nomination he was the best candidate of them all. A financial dynamo. That article has more credibility than any article that says "leading economists". Romney put his name behind that and his experience speaks for it's self. We missed a bel of an oportunity by losing him as a candidate.

Please!

[Silver Streak]

For someone that was so down you would think that you learned something from that. Apparantly NOT! I hope I never feel like you. The strong survive crap. You think you are the only one who has busted ass, keep feeding yourself that, so you can sleep at night!

Quoted by Rmyers
You should be careful before you assume too much. You don't realize that I quit school in the 11th grade and got my GED. Was married at 16 with a baby on the way. Have remained married for 26 years and raised 3 boys through good and bad times. You don't realize that I lived and raised a family on 73 dollars per week. I was dirt poor and now I am not. I happen to own 2 business and provide employment for 10 employees. One of those companies is losing money on a monthly basis, but I have not laid anyone off, nor am I asking for a government bailout. Just because I have a Z06 doesn't mean I am wealthy. But I have what I have because I worked my ass off for the past 28 years. If you want such luxuries, then work your but off and when you earn it you can have it. For those people that are unemployed, and don't have a 6 month rainy day fun, well perhaps they should have educated themselves and put themselves in a situation to live more within their means. Don't you realize that this entire economic situation stemmed from people living beyone their means and buying homes they could not afford.

Bottom line, if you want something, then work for it. Don't go around seeking to get it from someone else. I suggest you read some history and you will find out that what our govnerment is doing now has NEVER worked, and it won't work this time. I challenge anyone to show me where it has worked.
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