BMW Receives U.S. Federal Support During Economic Crisis

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

U sound a LOT like a BANNED poster that once went by the name ALL-OR-NOTHING. Over at the forum I moderate, he typed the exact same thing.

U guys type so similar I'd bet U have the same IPs

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

The "loans" only totaled to about $6.7 billion. GM doesn't even call the rest a loan. The federal government owns a controlling portion of "new GM." You know that. There is no agreement that the value of the original investment will be returned in full so it is NOT A LOAN. I highly doubt that any analyst expects the fed to recoup all of the original $52 B given to new GM. I'm not talking down GM, these are just the facts. That's why it was and still is so controversial.

Loaning to BMW probably saved a lot of American jobs, just like the loans to GM. BMW is probably contractually obligated to return the loan in full to the fed, with interest. There's nothing abnormal about this. It's a necessary duty of any central bank.

Those were still issued as loans

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

U sound a LOT like a BANNED poster that once went by the name ALL-OR-NOTHING. Over at the forum I moderate, he typed the exact same thing.

U guys type so similar I'd bet U have the same IPs

Yeah, ok buddy, go ahead and check. I've been here for years, why would I use some other name? Sorry you want to ignore the facts. The essence of a loan is the agreement to repay the loan in full. It is normal for the federal reserve to act as a lender of last resort for large corporations with a national impact. GM got $1.3B in loans from Germany for Opel, but I bet you didn't know that.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Those were still issued as loans

I find it HILARIOUS that he justifies the saving of BMW jobs at one plant in the U.S., which last I counted was about 5400 jobs.. but sees the lost of over 250K GM jobs worldwide, almost 100K here in the U.S. at the time, and possibly another 800K jobs connected to GM, as a bad move

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

The "loans" only totaled to about $6.7 billion. GM doesn't even call the rest a loan. The federal government owns a controlling portion of "new GM." You know that. There is no agreement that the value of the original investment will be returned in full so it is NOT A LOAN. I highly doubt that any analyst expects the fed to recoup all of the original $52 B given to new GM. I'm not talking down GM, these are just the facts. That's why it was and still is so controversial.

Loaning to BMW probably saved a lot of American jobs, just like the loans to GM. BMW is probably contractually obligated to return the loan in full to the fed, with interest. There's nothing abnormal about this. It's a necessary duty of any central bank.

I find it hard to acknowledge any argument that is supposed to defend the markets while also saying a central bank has a "necessary duty." I.e., stop trying to defend capitalism by using government planning.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

I find it HILARIOUS that he justifies the saving of BMW jobs at one plant in the U.S., which last I counted was about 5400 jobs.. but sees the lost of over 250K GM jobs worldwide, almost 100K here in the U.S. at the time, and possibly another 800K jobs connected to GM, as a bad move

Obviously, you have some reading problems. I never said anything like that.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Yeah, ok buddy, go ahead and check. I've been here for years, why would I use some other name? Sorry you want to ignore the facts. The essence of a loan is the agreement to repay the loan in full. It is normal for the federal reserve to act as a lender of last resort for large corporations with a national impact. GM got $1.3B in loans from Germany for Opel, but I bet you didn't know that.

U obviously don't kno my knowledge of what GM does doesn't do. GMDAT also got loans from S. Korea.

But there's the key word: LOANS. And like the U.S. repayment and Equity Swap, reduced by a rather successful IPO... the GMDAT loans just got payed off on Dec 1.

Of course not even talking about these Credit/Finance Loans, Ford still owes the U.S. Taxpayer $5.6 Billion from a DOE Loan... and Nissan still owes the U.S. Taxpayer .. YUP...:emoticon7: I said NISSAN, another foreign company, owes us almost $2 Billion.

But that's just par for the course... something we should... shhhhh.. not talk about

[bigearl]

Originally Posted by a_Username

The Fed is doing nothing but hurting the economy. Even if you assume the Fed's plan, which, by the way, is pretty confident in itself to actually believe any person or entity can plan any economy, is "successful," then you must also realize it's setting itself up for bigger failures in the future. Hazlitt said it best in Economics in One Lesson, "Does not the spendthrift know that after his glorious fling he only creates more future debt and poverty?" (Can't remember the exact quote, word-for-word!)

Although this does not prove nor falsify rather or not TARP did increase lending, this picture at least makes you question the validity of TARP.

I don't think anyone is really going to get a handle on whether TARP helped or hurt for another 10 to 15 years.

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

Hmmmm sounds vaguely similar to a certain Larger American Automaker's request for the same reasons, but then had to file Chapt 11 an reap untold ridicule and hassle from people in this county who felt that NO private company should get loans from the Federal Gov. I guess it only applies to American companies

No it doesn't really. The big difference is that BMW would have been able to get a loan without much issue if the banks hadn't basically been shut to large loans. GM was at serious risk of complete default and at a CCC rating. Not the same thing at all. You have a bad tendency to cherry-pick headlines and ignore details.

As far as the Gov't giving loans to anyone, given where things were at that time, I don't think I have an issue with it. It has much less to do with the location of the HQ and more to do with a) the ability of the company to pay it back and b) will it create American jobs (which it did per my understanding).

[Berean]

Not sure why anyone would complain about this.

Once you've decided it's ok for government to "help" private businesses, which seems to be fashionable nowadays, then anything goes.

So congrats. Suck it up any pay your taxes.

BMW only needs to release a commercial with a guy skiing down the Alps, falling down, then getting back up, to make everyone feel good about themselves again.

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by Berean

BMW only needs to release a commercial with a guy skiing down the Alps, falling down, then getting back up, to make everyone feel good about themselves again.

Good stuff

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

I said NISSAN, another foreign company, owes us almost $2 Billion.

And we owe China $1 Trillion..and we owe Japan quite a bit too. What's your point?

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by bigearl

I don't think anyone is really going to get a handle on whether TARP helped or hurt for another 10 to 15 years.

Actually, some are already going around boasting that "taxpayers have profited." Even if we ignore TARP as a whole, which is what some economists are doing in regards to how they can conclude taxpayers have profited on certain categories, it will still make you wonder how can we profit in anyway? I don't recall anyone getting their dividend check from the $7 Billion profit that Yglesias proudly proclaimed. As I said before, they're not helping our economy in the least.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

U obviously don't kno my knowledge of what GM does doesn't do. GMDAT also got loans from S. Korea.

But there's the key word: LOANS. And like the U.S. repayment and Equity Swap, reduced by a rather successful IPO... the GMDAT loans just got payed off on Dec 1.

Of course not even talking about these Credit/Finance Loans, Ford still owes the U.S. Taxpayer $5.6 Billion from a DOE Loan... and Nissan still owes the U.S. Taxpayer .. YUP...:emoticon7: I said NISSAN, another foreign company, owes us almost $2 Billion.

But that's just par for the course... something we should... shhhhh.. not talk about

Despite the fact I can barely understand what you're trying to get at because of your unbelievably poor english, I think you are trying to insinuate that these loans to BMW aren't loans. . . or something along those lines. They are, and they will be paid back in full, with interest. From an economic standpoint, these loans are far, FAR less risky than the majority position in GM and likely to generate profit rather than loss. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Despite the fact I can barely understand what you're trying to get at because of your unbelievably poor english, I think you are trying to insinuate that these loans to BMW aren't loans. . . or something along those lines. They are, and they will be paid back in full, with interest. From an economic standpoint, these loans are far, FAR less risky than the majority position in GM and likely to generate profit rather than loss. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

at the insult. Dude... I type the way I want... Deal wit it.

As for what I was attempting to say... My issue has never been the fact that these foreign companies received loans from the U.S. My issue is the fact that these companies got none of the flack that GM and Chrysler got. I understand that these loan just came to light, but even now, when we kno the truth, so many IDIOTS IMPORT LOVERS are jumping to their defense.

Point blank... People like this make me hate this country. Americans who are so quick to throw their own under the bus are the reason why I fear for this country's future. I once fought in a war for this country... voluntarily; but based on just the ignorant notions of moronic Subaru driving fools... I would have sooner went AWOL.