Motor Trend: ZR1 vs 911 Turbo

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Did you not read or simply not understand what I wrote with regard to the 'dual nature' of the ZR1? I'll repeat it and clarify:
"The car can be completely docile when driving around, until you decide to stomp on it and it transforms into a beast"

It has a spilt personality, depending on how you drive it. Want to just drive it like a normal car? You can and it acts accordingly. Want to be aggressive? It becomes aggressive.

All the times when they're exclaiming the thrilling, beastly nature of the ZR1, they're driving it hard, usually on a closed course with an experience driver. But look up reviews where they talk about driving it on public roads and not taking corners at 60 mph.

I see you didn't read all of my posts, or you're just ignoring the facts. Oh well

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by a_Username

There is a lot of difference between the cars you've listed.For example, In the case of the Mustang vs. Camaro: 412 HP vs. 426 HP, 5.0L vs. 6.2L, ~3600lbs vs. ~3850lbs, 255s vs 275s, etc. Those sure aren't the same specs.

Price allows manufacturers to produce cars with different styles in order to achieve a similar performance goal, but cars that have the same specs will obviously perform the same.

Fine then:
3.8L vs. 6.3L
620hp vs. 638hp
3021lb vs. 3352lb

These differences are all greater than the differences you pointed out. And cars with the same specs don't perform the same. Like I said, look at IS-F vs. M3

[lil_chef]

Originally Posted by HeHasReturned

I see you didn't read all of my posts, or you're just ignoring the facts. Oh well

your posts are just opinion based as his.... it goes both ways, how many GT2's have you driven? how many 911 tubo's? how many ZR1's?

fact of the matter is the motortrend comparison was done based on HISTORY. at the end of the article there is even a historical section, and on the website there was a story about the Corvette Vs turbo.

did you consider that the comparison was based off of what ever porsche they could get their hands on? there arent many GT2 RS in the world (i dont even think production has started) so they got the next best thing (considering the ZR1 already beat the previous GT2 i year or 2 back).

[truth411]

Originally Posted by HeHasReturned

The 911 gt2rs is as much a street legal race car as the zr1, so I don't understand what point you're trying to make. If you're referring to the roll cage, I'm pretty sure I explained many times that it's part of a sport package OPTION, it's not the standard equipment, but okay.

As for the "Wow, who would have guessed that one!" comment, they have done it before. This is the first one which comes to mind, and I'm sure I could find a billion like it:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

Calling the 911 gt2rs a barely street legal race car is not too far off the mark. Dont the GT2 RS run on cup tires? In contrast the Zr1 has runflat tires. Put cup tires on the ZR1 and place a huge wing out back and I bet $500 it would loose to the Zr1 thanks to more Grip and added downforce.
Not to cause controversy, But I think Porche has pretty much maxed out what is possible for the 911 thanks to the engine being in the wrong spot If Porsche put as much tech, effort and performace into the cayman, I bet $500 more that it would inherently be faster than the 911. But I have met so many people that think if the enginge is not in the back than it is not a true porsche which is silly, not too menchion very limiting to porsche.

[lil_chef]

Originally Posted by truth411

Calling the 911 gt2rs a barely street legal race car is not too far off the mark. Dont the GT2 RS run on cup tires? In contrast the Zr1 has runflat tires. Put cup tires on the ZR1 and place a huge wing out back and I bet $500 it would loose to the Zr1 thanks to more Grip and added downforce.
Not to cause controversy, But I think Porche has pretty much maxed out what is possible for the 911 thanks to the engine being in the wrong spot If Porsche put as much tech, effort and performace into the cayman, I bet $500 more that it would inherently be faster than the 911. But I have met so many people that think if the enginge is not in the back than it is not a true porsche which is silly, not too menchion very limiting to porsche.

i can attest from experience that a 350 hp cayman is very much a better car than a base 911. Porsche needs to AT LEAST develop GT2, GT3 variants of the cayman.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by lil_chef

i can attest from experience that a 350 hp cayman is very much a better car than a base 911. Porsche needs to AT LEAST develop GT2, GT3 variants of the cayman.

IMHO Porsche needs to develop a flat 8 for the 911 so the Cayman can realize it's full potential without the need to protect the 911 from it.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Puts a smile on my face to read that. ALL of that.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by HeHasReturned

Fine then:
3.8L vs. 6.3L
620hp vs. 638hp
3021lb vs. 3352lb

These differences are all greater than the differences you pointed out. And cars with the same specs don't perform the same. Like I said, look at IS-F vs. M3

Are you trying to argue against yourself lol? . I was just showing the idiocy of arguing based on specs. For them to be truly equal, then both vehicles must use the same style to achieve their intended power. For example, they both must use V8s, RWD, M6s, Equal Weight, etc. With all things equal, they perform the same; that's why pointing out every dissimilar aspect of a car and saying make them the same eventually would lead to both cars being exactly the same.

[lil_chef]

Originally Posted by syr74

IMHO Porsche needs to develop a flat 8 for the 911 so the Cayman can realize it's full potential without the need to protect the 911 from it.

IMO porsche needs to take notes from RUF, who developed a V8 that is physically the same size as the flat 6 in the 911/cayman but weighs a little less and puts out over 500 hp N/a

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/03/g...8-porsche-911/

My dad is looking to get it transplanted into his cayman

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by lil_chef

IMO porsche needs to take notes from RUF, who developed a V8 that is physically the same size as the flat 6 in the 911/cayman but weighs a little less and puts out over 500 hp N/a

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/03/g...8-porsche-911/

My dad is looking to get it transplanted into his cayman

RUF can take liberties that OEM's can't. Sorta like wondering why if Hennessy can sell 1000 hp Corvettes, why can't GM?

[franknbeans]

Found this video online. .

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by lil_chef

your posts are just opinion based as his.... it goes both ways, how many GT2's have you driven? how many 911 tubo's? how many ZR1's?

fact of the matter is the motortrend comparison was done based on HISTORY. at the end of the article there is even a historical section, and on the website there was a story about the Corvette Vs turbo.

did you consider that the comparison was based off of what ever porsche they could get their hands on? there arent many GT2 RS in the world (i dont even think production has started) so they got the next best thing (considering the ZR1 already beat the previous GT2 i year or 2 back).

I was speaking about the post in which I linked to Inside Line driving the GT2 RS

Originally Posted by a_Username

Are you trying to argue against yourself lol? . I was just showing the idiocy of arguing based on specs. For them to be truly equal, then both vehicles must use the same style to achieve their intended power. For example, they both must use V8s, RWD, M6s, Equal Weight, etc. With all things equal, they perform the same; that's why pointing out every dissimilar aspect of a car and saying make them the same eventually would lead to both cars being exactly the same.

You are the one who brought up Same Specs comparisons...And then you turn it around and say no two cars have the same specs. I don't understand what point you're trying to make by flip-flopping, so I'll just leave it at that.

Oh, and btw, those speaking about the cayman, I couldn't agree more, they definitely need to make a 400+hp variant of the car, I'd be willing to bet it'd spank everything. If anyone wants to see some sick caymans, look at what kind of power tpc is getting out of them by turboing, it's pretty cool.
http://www.tpcracing.com/

EDIT: Chef, your dad should definitely look into this, much better alternative than engine swap.

[lil_chef]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

RUF can take liberties that OEM's can't. Sorta like wondering why if Hennessy can sell 1000 hp Corvettes, why can't GM?

i dont think that is an accurate comparison as porsche has more liberties than GM in creating a performance car. I believe the reason porsche doesnt develop a small V8 for the 911 is the same reason as to why the corvette more than likely won't receive a v6, tradition.

The performance of porsches are severely limited by tradition, as evidenced by the pretty hard whoopin the ZR1 just gave the Turbo in just about every category in the comparison. the one category that the porsche won was also the single category where a rear engine set up would be preferable.

[lil_chef]

Originally Posted by HeHasReturned

EDIT: Chef, your dad should definitely look into this, much better alternative than engine swap.

The V8 is the same size, weighs less and mounts lower in the car. it is definitely the more favorable choice since the car was/is tracked very hard.