Toyota Obstructed Justice

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Cowboy from Hell

Well i think if the reviewer in question is giving a car a good review without looking at the car in question, he's not a very good reviewer.

That would be consumer reports. Provided "reccomended buys" for many a toyota model that they subsequently retracted basically due to "Oh...we didn't realize they weren't made of gold this year".....

Originally Posted by Cowboy from Hell

As for the Labour/Business disparity in 70's and 80's.. you'll have to explain that to me.. not being from the USA I'm not sure what your referring to.

By bringing up fairness, I mentioned this facet of the argument. Toyota had a VERY unfair advantage early on by way of cheap labor compared to our established and protected labor force. This allowed them to do much more with much less and undercut the price of their competitors.

It had nothing to do with this thread, though.

Originally Posted by Cowboy from Hell

As for Manipulating a currency... that is to do with the Japanese Government.

Correct. Yet the company benefited, and ours did not. Again, completely off-topic, but unfair none the less.

Originally Posted by Cowboy from Hell

The intentional withholding of safety concerns etc.. is yet to be proven. After all this is what this is all about.

No. It has been proven. The pedal/floormat/computer/whatever issue was a KNOWN problem at least two years ago. And while the Japanese market was alerted and notices/recalls were issued -- the company declined to notify the NHTSA and the US market. Soon, more dirty 'secrets' will come out if the paperwork is to be released as the article suggests. But of what lawyers could get their hands on -- this was proven. toyota tried to hide the issue and protect their 'holy' reputation in the US.

Originally Posted by Cowboy from Hell

Toyota and Lexus have reacted to resolve issues with their vehicles... as any Car Manufacturer should!!

Definitely. But after how much pushing by the safety administration? After how many denials of problems due to "operator error"?

Originally Posted by Cowboy from Hell

I'm trying to keep a neutral stance, keeping an open mind and waiting to see what comes of all of this. That is what i mean by "unfair", some people have already made up their minds and i believe that even if Toyota are absolved of all these accusations it won't change them.

Of the available facts surrounding this issue...none of them reflect kindly on toyota. And since it's all we've got so far....yeah -- some people have made up their minds against them. Many of us are also not willing to give a major foreign entity the benefit of the doubt based on previous experiences/knowledge.

I applaud your neutrality, though.

Originally Posted by Cowboy from Hell

I wonder if Chevrolet were under the spotlight whether they would be getting the same reaction!!

Oh trust me, Chevy...and Ford and Dodge for that matter -- have gotten their share of bad press and sour grapes on the part of consumers. Earned or not -- they're hardly unscathed.

But they're not under the spotlight. toyota...is.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

As unfair as it is to give a company good reviews without even looking at the cars? The costs of labor/business disparity in the 70s and 80s? The manipulation of the Yen? The intentional withholding of safety concerns from the US market? Or maybe as unfair as the media/societal bias was for the better part of a decade, at least...adding to that 'earned' reputation? When it comes to toyota....the topic of fairness really isn't a solid argument.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Nobody has said they are garbage, but they're not the miraculous vehicles that many people believe them to be either.

I actually did say those cars are garbage. Toyotas are as reliable as most American market products. GM products are reliable, retain their resale value, better designed, more attractive, have longer warranties, faster, and made by a company with a soul. The last point is a very important one. GM has a soul because it was born of ingenuity, served its home country, and was designed with excellence in mind. For that reason, GM's logo is called the Mark of Excellence, and salespeople who represent GM get awarded with an award by the same title for spreading the gospel of quality GM products. Essentially, the products from Toyota are just as good as Hyundai, a company that also has some people who swear by their products even though the rest of us know that Hyundai products are basically attractively compacted garbage with paint on the exterior. GM is a company built on something real. Toyota is a company built on making money alone, and that has shown in this spat of recalls, amounting so far to 12.3 million vehicles worldwide. Toyota killed people with its greed. While Hyundai might make products from garbage, Toyota is far worse. Toyota has shown that its corporation is not only a garbage producer, but its executives are equally worthless.

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

GM has a soul because it was born of ingenuity, served its home country, and was designed with excellence in mind. For that reason, GM's logo is called the Mark of Excellence, and salespeople who represent GM get awarded with an award by the same title for spreading the gospel of quality GM products. Essentially, the products from Toyota are just as good as Hyundai, a company that also has some people who swear by their products even though the rest of us know that Hyundai products are basically attractively compacted garbage with paint on the exterior. GM is a company built on something real. Toyota is a company built on making money alone, and that has shown in this spat of recalls, amounting so far to 12.3 million vehicles worldwide. Toyota killed people with its greed. While Hyundai might make products from garbage, Toyota is far worse. Toyota has shown that its corporation is not only a garbage producer, but its executives are equally worthless.

GM is better because it awards its salespeople? Hyundai and Toyota are garbage because you say they are? What is this "something real" that GM is built on that these other companies are not built on? Do you have any examples to prove why Hyundai and Toyota are such "garbage" as compared to domestics? Or is it just because they are foreign, and "gasp", Asian? There's bias, and then their is blind ignorance. I think you know what category this falls in. And before you hand me an infraction and perma-ban me for no apparent reason, I'd like to hear a decent response, not a xenophobic rant or a lame tagline

[a_Username]

[TaylorRyanSS]

I hate toyota. All of their cars are blah and boring and everyone thinks they are the best cars out there. GM & Ford have way better looking cars than most asian manufacturers today imo. The only asian car manufacturer I like is Nissan. 370Z & GTR

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by TaylorRyan74

I hate toyota. All of their cars are blah and boring and everyone thinks they are the best cars out there. GM & Ford have way better looking cars than most asian manufacturers today imo. The only asian car manufacturer I like is Nissan. 370Z & GTR

I respect that, honest and reasonable

[Sweet Zness]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Meh. I say they're garbage. The '09 Corolla I was in a few weeks ago was atrocious. Cheap, flimsy materials, hard plastic everywhere, passenger side dash panel wasn't even installed correctly.

LOL and the absolute worst new car I ever sat in was a Cobalt with only 800 miles on it. The Chevy badge on the trunk was peeling off, the dash was warping, the door handle panel was so cheap that the fake silver color was scratching off and there was a bubble on the driver side floor that I could press down with my feet that would pop back up.

The worse problems I ever had with any vehicle I have ever owned is my 2004 GMC Envoy XUV. You ready for this list???


Before my warranty ran out.


1. AC wouldn't cool properly
2. Transmission wouldn't shift properly, would get stuck in a low gear (3 different times) Finally had to replace.
3. Midgate window motor failed (had to have a company make one since GM didn't have any in stock
4. Rear window motor failed
5. Ignition switch failed 2 times
6. Rear tailgate latch broke
7. Rear tailgate electronic latch broke
8. Rolling roof rattles at highway speed
9. Thumping noise when AC engages
10. Panel from rear bed assembly broke off
11. Dash Board failure

What failed right after warranty of 36,000 miles

1. Engine oil pump
2. Cooling fan clutch
3. Water pump
4. Transmission chord latch broke
5. DIC failure

What has failed under 100K miles

1. Engine replaced
2. Headlights randomly turnoff, due to wiring smoldered.



I buy american because I feel its the right thing to do, but lets not be remiss. The last three GM purchases I made have all been terrible maintenance traps. I can't tell you how tired I am of replacing window motors or rattling falling panels on my Z28. Don't get me wrong I love my Z, but I sat in a coworkers Corolla S and it was by far and away a much better offering than the Cobalt.

[SSRSLY]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

This is easily the best quote in the article.

Can't say that I blame them, our legal system is a joke.

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Cheap, flimsy materials, hard plastic everywhere, passenger side dash panel wasn't even installed correctly.

Funny, replace "dash panel" with "glove box" and you just described our 2010 Camaro...

Originally Posted by a_Username

Pretty much. The quality gap has been nearly non-existent for at least 5 years now.

Yes, but, it's the previous 20 they're rolling on.

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by Sweet Zness

Laundry list of problems*

I would have sold it before all those problems...

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by TaylorRyan74

I hate toyota. All of their cars are blah and boring and everyone thinks they are the best cars out there. GM & Ford have way better looking cars than most asian manufacturers today imo. The only asian car manufacturer I like is Nissan. 370Z & GTR

That is my main complaint against them, however the latest shenanigans they've been pulling haven't helped. Toyota USED to have some decently interesting cars... now they've just watered everything down.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by HeHasReturned

GM is better because it awards its salespeople? Hyundai and Toyota are garbage because you say they are? What is this "something real" that GM is built on that these other companies are not built on? Do you have any examples to prove why Hyundai and Toyota are such "garbage" as compared to domestics? Or is it just because they are foreign, and "gasp", Asian? There's bias, and then their is blind ignorance. I think you know what category this falls in. And before you hand me an infraction and perma-ban me for no apparent reason, I'd like to hear a decent response, not a xenophobic rant or a lame tagline

The awards are not important. The concept is important.

Toyota used to make decent products that were both safe and reliable. That was respectable. Now, their products are terrible.

My first car was a Nissan. It was reliable and built with quality. I have a lot of respect for that brand, so don't give me a line about how I hate all things Japanese. There are obviously good products outside of the US. The function of this thread is to bring awareness to blatantly illegal behavior by a major automaker. Had GM done the same thing, I would lose all respect in the company for making such a terrible decision to hide or destroy evidence of illegal activities. Why are you defending them?

[LOWDOWN]

Seems to me the headline "Arbitrator finds Toyota used lawyers to hide, destroy documents" and the actual text of the article are at variance...

"Now, the new arbitrator has ruled that the documents will be admissible - but the ruling does not suggest that either Toyota or Biller acted illegally or legally, as the case will now move to a formal trial for that determination. "

One disgruntled former contracted worker's opinion (who "took the money and ran") vs. his former employer...and another case for the courts to ultimately decide...which has yet to occur.

"Rush to judgement" comes to mind. A lil bit early for the tree and rope...

Stay tuned...

[jrc1122]

Maybe I am jaded, by Both shady business practices, and oppressive governments.. But I am starting to not care about this at all.

Its funny that when this gas pedal/ acceleration story came out.. You would think 1000s of Toyota drivers were plunging to their deaths every day due to car malfunctions. But once the story died down, so did the hysteria.

It was funny, We would get "Breaking News" stories of various random fender benders, that involved a Toyota.. It was one of the most ridiculous knee jerk/ band wagon type fiascoes I have seen in a long time.

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

The function of this thread is to bring awareness to blatantly illegal behavior by a major automaker. Had GM done the same thing, I would lose all respect in the company for making such a terrible decision to hide or destroy evidence of illegal activities. Why are you defending them?

First of all, this "blatantly illegal behavior" is somewhat shady in its own. As LOWDOWN said

One disgruntled former contracted worker's opinion (who "took the money and ran") vs. his former employer...and another case for the courts to ultimately decide...which has yet to occur.

Anyways, that's besides the point. I'm not as concerned about Toyota, since everyone has decided to jump on the "Kill Toyota" bandwagon without any facts or proof. But I'm still curious as to why you think Hyundai is such "garbage," which was the gist of your last post.