Volt pricing announced. Starts at $41,000*

[CamaroScotty]

"+ Additional dealer mark up"

You thought the Camaro had mark up.....

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by syr74

Yeah, its' too good of a deal. The residual needed to reach that payment would have to be huge, so huge it seems impractical in fact. This smacks of a bit of GM hedging their bets against what is a fairly stiff msrp by offering a lease deal they may eventually lose money on but can initially claim is profitable. I don't like it because it offers a way for GM to potentially, and possibly easily, claim the Volt is profitable even if it is a money pit long term. Please keep in mind that this is not me bashing GM, rather I think the hybrid electric vehicle concept is absolutely ridiculous and untenable monetarily without huge subsidies. So, put simply, I am not overly fond of any automakers hybrids.

Well, they plan on losing money on them at first. But the cost to the company of not building the Volt is probably greater than the selling them at a loss

[syr74]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Well, they plan on losing money on them at first. But the cost to the company of not building the Volt is probably greater than the selling them at a loss

I get the argument, but I can't agree with it. From a business perspective hybrid electrics are the long shot of long shots IMO.

[fielderLS3]

First, something jumped out at me in that article:

"Once the car has been ordered, Volt customer service advisers will contact the customer and take them through a survey to determine if they are eligible for one of the free Department of Energy-funded home charging units from Coulomb Technologies or Ecotality.

If they don't live in one of the eligible areas, they will be referred to another charger supplier that GM will be working with. Because the Volt's 16 kilowatt-hour battery pack can be charged in just 8-10 hours from a 110 volt outlet, customers don't actually have to get a 220-volt charger for the Volt, potentially saving them several thousand dollars compared to a battery EV like the Leaf."

A 220-volt charger costs thousands of dollars!?!?!?!? Isn't it just a step-up transformer? And shouldn't that be something the car comes with if needed? (Perhaps more of a Nissan directed question). That's like being told the car costs this....but this is what we charge for the keys. Kind of makes you wonder what the car will actually cost after dealers and manufacturers are done nickel and diming (or more accurately Grover Clevelanding) the customers for these.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

~$20k car
~$15k for batteries
~$6k for electric motors and generator

Pricing makes sense

I'm sure there will be a certain niche in the market that will pay anything just because it's a plug-in hybrid. Problem is, at this pricing, no one else will be interested, and the car will only ever appeal to that small niche. You're quote shows it best DG, ultimately its a $20k car (just with $21k of efficiency adders), which is more than enough to pay for all the gas over the entire life of a car like, say, the Chevy Cruse. (so even if the Volt were driving on "free" energy all the time, it still doesn't make financial sense). And remember, like all hybrids, it will get great mileage, but probably nothing close to its EPA ratings (whatever that will be).

Leasing also doesn't make sense. $350 a month + $2500 down is $14,600 for what is probably a 27,000 mile (or similarly low-mileage) 3-year lease. You'll be able to buy a Cruze outright for about the same or slightly more.

Again, I recognize that there is a niche for these cars, but it is just a niche. So lets stop pretending that it can ever be a high volume car without GM finding a way to cut at $10-15k off the sticker without decontenting it.

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

Again, I recognize that there is a niche for these cars, but it is just a niche. So lets stop pretending that it can ever be a high volume car without GM finding a way to cut at $10-15k off the sticker without decontenting it.

Not to get political here, but welcome to Government thinking. GM is coming out of bankruptcy and desperately needs to make money in any way possible. So the owners of GM, the Government, have decided it makes great sense to dump tons of money into a project they openly admit will result in a vehicle that will sell at a loss, which will actually cost the struggling company money.

[2010-1SS-IBM]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

First, something jumped out at me in that article:

"Once the car has been ordered, Volt customer service advisers will contact the customer and take them through a survey to determine if they are eligible for one of the free Department of Energy-funded home charging units from Coulomb Technologies or Ecotality.

If they don't live in one of the eligible areas, they will be referred to another charger supplier that GM will be working with. Because the Volt's 16 kilowatt-hour battery pack can be charged in just 8-10 hours from a 110 volt outlet, customers don't actually have to get a 220-volt charger for the Volt, potentially saving them several thousand dollars compared to a battery EV like the Leaf."

A 220-volt charger costs thousands of dollars!?!?!?!? Isn't it just a step-up transformer? And shouldn't that be something the car comes with if needed? (Perhaps more of a Nissan directed question). That's like being told the car costs this....but this is what we charge for the keys. Kind of makes you wonder what the car will actually cost after dealers and manufacturers are done nickel and diming (or more acturately Grover Clevelanding) the customers for these.



I'm sure there will be a certain niche in the market that will pay anything just because it's a plug-in hybrid. Problem is, at this pricing, no one else will be interested, and the car will only ever appeal to that small niche. You're quote shows it best DG, ultimately its a $20k car (just with $21k of efficiency adders), which is more than enough to pay for all the gas over the entire life of a car like, say, the Chevy Cruse. (so even if the Volt were driving on "free" energy all the time, it still doesn't make financial sense). And remember, like all hybrids, it will get great mileage, but probably nothing close to its EPA ratings (whatever that will be).

Leasing also doesn't make sense. $350 a month + $2500 down is $14,600 for what is probably a 27,000 mile (or similarly low-mileage) 3-year lease. You'll be able to buy a Cruze outright for about the same or slightly more.

Again, I recognize that there is a niche for these cars, but it is just a niche. So lets stop pretending that it can ever be a high volume car without GM finding a way to cut at $10-15k off the sticker without decontenting it.

It's not very economical now, and it doesn't appeal to many people now either. But GM is at least betting a little bit that they can improve the technology enough to become more economical and appealing in the future. Having an operational model will help a lot with that.

Bonus question: What kind of performance mods will the aftermarket make for these cars?

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM

Bonus question: What kind of performance mods will the aftermarket make for these cars?

Not many until they become more mainstream. Once they do though, 'hacking' your car will get pretty popular I'm sure

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

Not to get political here, but welcome to Government thinking. GM is coming out of bankruptcy and desperately needs to make money in any way possible. So the owners of GM, the Government, have decided it makes great sense to dump tons of money into a project they openly admit will result in a vehicle that will sell at a loss, which will actually cost the struggling company money.

That's right...GM can't afford not to deficit spend. Should be focusing more on stuff like the Camaro. Don't they profit $8-10k off every SS? I'd like it better if they'd invest some of that into gear options or some kind of track pack. This is the same old GM business model of using profitable cars to subsidize unprofitable cars.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Could be 10% better, could be 10x better, could be infinitely better. Depends on how far you drive.


Sorta, its called 'aerodynamics'. The concept wasn't aerodynamic, the production car is. And there is no getting around the fact that the egg shape of the Volt, Prius, Insight and other highly efficient cars is near optimal if you want to maximize space and aerodynamics.

Like he said................................thanks DG saved me the typing.....wait I'm still typing.....................crap. I guess this was a completely inneficient post after all.

I've had a lot of people, inside and outside of GM tell me they loved the original concept. But the aero just flat didn't do it. The whole point of the car is maximize the range and when you have 400 pounds of LiION batteries, you have offset that with aerodynamics.

I sat in a pre production car today and it's pretty sweet. Not a big fan of 41K, I was hoping we would price it agressively, but the lease payment is pretty good, great in fact or this car and the level of technology and content.

Oh and there was some kind of cool car with a black cloth top parked next to it........reminded me of a Camaro So I guess that makes it a Camaro convertible.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

Not to get political here, but welcome to Government thinking. GM is coming out of bankruptcy and desperately needs to make money in any way possible. So the owners of GM, the Government, have decided it makes great sense to dump tons of money into a project they openly admit will result in a vehicle that will sell at a loss, which will actually cost the struggling company money.

The Volt is simply a product of government regulation. CAFE is forcing automakers to reach a MPG standard across their fleet and this is GM's response. It is forcing a company that just came out of bankruptcy to produce a vehicle that loses money, but to the government it serves a "greater good." I'm sure what the government is betting on is a market expansion of electric/hybrid vehicles if automotive manufacturers are forced to create fuel-efficient vehicles. However, they can't create demand for these vehicles. All in all, this will be just another failed attempt at government economics.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

Read the two sentences again, and see if you spot the I'm talking about.

So you have two extra years of OnStar after the lease is up. Who cares? If you give up the lease then it isn't even your problem anymore.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by 305pride

holy shit a prius starts at 22 g's

And is vastly inferior to the Volt in every way possible.

You get what you pay for.

Volt costs a crapload of money, yes. But the list of standard features is impressive. Touch-screen navigation, for instance, is standard.

[Cheshirelaugh]

Wow, I'm incredibly disappointed in the Volt pricing. $41K is simply not competitive.
I know people say the Standard features are "impressive" but I've yet to see any tech "features" that make it price competitive with any of the other hybrids out there. Extended Range or not.

I just went to build a Prius including the Advanced Technology package for $34K that's without having to wait for tax season to get $7.5K back and includes:
Radar-controlled cruise control
Lane-keep assist
Intelligent Parking Assist
Back up camera
4-Disc CD Changer
Voice-activated Nav

All that and more for $34K... Even if the Volt DOES include all that it's STILL $3K more than a Prius. That in my opinion is a recipe for disaster.

A tax rebate should be a bonus to your sales pitch. Not an excuse for why your car costs so much. Some how saying "The government will PAY YOU to buy it" just doesn't seem like that great a deal to me... This is not how you steal buyers from the other Hybrid makers out there...
I forseee GM Giving up on the Volt in a few years and only making as many as they have to to satisfy federal regulations and selling those they do make to the government.

[lil_chef]

it costs as much as a camaro SS or mustang GT, and you get a car equally as impressive but for different reasons. hell i would buy one immediately, if i wasnt a college student strapped for cash