MERGED: Has anyone read this (bankruptcy) about GM?

[chevydude26]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Where did you find that, Chevydude? Do you have a link I could follow?

The only problem I have with that whole thing...is that the author expects the public to have enough sense to realize what he wrote. People WON'T realize there's nothing to fear from buying from a bankrupt company.....

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/lm33.cfm

yeah people would be worried about warranties and such...if they go through with this gm needs to put out commercials ensuring that they will be in business for the long run and warranties will not be a problem

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

Sure, as long as there is no political spin.

I guess I can't post any pictures of me physically spinning a politician here.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by fullhouse

Hmm . . . maybe that's why they make a partnership to Chrysler.

Hmm...maybe that's why there won't be a partnership with Chrysler.

[trm0002]

Doesn't a merger have to be first approved by BOTH Boards and then ratified by the stockholders of each company? First, there isn't enough time to accomplish it and 2nd, would Cerebus being the majority share holder in Chrysler even want to trade it for the remaining shares in GMAC? I see no benefit on the GM shareholder side to approve the deal given both companies are in real trouble. The stake GM has in GMAC at least makes it some money.

[Rodrunner]

FYI:
Mitt Romney, who has had success revamping corporate finances and is credited with turning around the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, in a New York Times opinion piece, stated he too believes, if General Motors, Ford and Chrysler get the bailout the companies have sought from the federal government, "you can kiss the American automotive industry goodbye … Its demise will be virtually guaranteed."
He basically reiterated what chevydude26's article stated, saying, "The American auto industry is vital to our national interest as an employer and as a hub for manufacturing. A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs. It would permit the companies to shed excess labor, pension and real estate costs. The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk."
He ended the piece with, "In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check."

Makes pretty good sense to me. I think I'd look at them as a more viable, long term company if in chapter 11, and I'd definitely still buy a car from them.


2SS/RS Black/Black w-Cyber Gray stripes/Auto ordered-10/18/08

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Rodrunner

FYI:
Mitt Romney, .....

Unfortunately, Mr. Romney ignored or didn't acknowledge the changes they have made, instead basing all his opinions on what was the case years ago. And he completely ignored the fact that 80% of people would thumb their noses at a bankrupt company. Those two things alone are enough to undermine his entire argument.

So coming through bankruptcy all lean and mean is perfectly allright, and I agree it could help reshape the company. But it doesn't mean jack if nobody's going to buy from them. Now the country's out hundreds of billions of dollars, AND an auto Industry. Foolish move, imo.

[Rodrunner]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Unfortunately, Mr. Romney ignored or didn't acknowledge the changes they have made, instead basing all his opinions on what was the case years ago. And he completely ignored the fact that 80% of people would thumb their noses at a bankrupt company. Those two things alone are enough to undermine his entire argument.

So coming through bankruptcy all lean and mean is perfectly allright, and I agree it could help reshape the company. But it doesn't mean jack if nobody's going to buy from them. Now the country's out hundreds of billions of dollars, AND an auto Industry. Foolish move, imo.

No offense, Dragoneye, but they're destitute now, not years ago, so the changes they've already made haven't helped, have they? And 80% of people aren't buying from them now!! So what have they got to lose by reorganizing under Chapter 11?

2SS/RS Black/Black w-Cyber Gray stripes/Auto ordered-10/18/08

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Rodrunner

No offense, Dragoneye, but they're destitute now, not years ago, so the changes they've already made haven't helped, have they? And 80% of people aren't buying from them now!! So what have they got to lose by reorganizing under Chapter 11?

2SS/RS Black/Black w-Cyber Gray stripes/Auto ordered-10/18/08

I have to agree here. I was initially totally against chapt. 11, but from what I've heard from the CEOs testimony, I am now convinced any - ANY -type of loan provided to the big 3 will not fix their problems. I didn't realize untill now that while they have made great strides in product, their current business models are drastically behind the 21st century, they do still have lackluster management at all levels, and the problems are so deep rooted that no loan will fix anything.

A complete overhaul of the organizations from top to bottom, both domestically and overseas, must occur for them to be successfull again.

It's sad but true. I was really dissapointed with their testimony and presentation in congress. I felt they came unprepaired to deal with the questions, I feel they should have alread a plan in place (without congress prompting them) on how they will use any loan, and I really think now that their problems are more self inflicted than simply "America turning their backs on us" and "the economy took a dump". You can only blame the American public and circumstances out of your control so much. I don't recall any big 3 CEO begging congress for money in the 1930s when the economy was MUCH worse.

I'm not going to pretend I have answers, all I will say is I have a lower opinion of GM, Ford, and Chrysler after watching the hearing.

They came off as almost oblivious to their own implosion.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Rodrunner

No offense, Dragoneye, but they're destitute now, not years ago, so the changes they've already made haven't helped, have they? And 80% of people aren't buying from them now!! So what have they got to lose by reorganizing under Chapter 11?

it takes time for a lot of these changes to take effect. Reliability perceptions take at least 10 years to take hold. Last years UAW agreement takes effect in 2010. a lot of us here would still buy from GM under bankruptcy, but will someone who is worried about reliability of domestics consider one when the warranty coverage is questionable? I doubt it.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by fastball

I'm not going to pretend I have answers, all I will say is I have a lower opinion of GM, Ford, and Chrysler after watching the hearing.

They came off as almost oblivious to their own implosion.

I'll second your first statement and throw my own .02 cents in on the second.

They're not oblivious, they know they're in trouble. They're just so arrogant they thought they'd just walk in and leave with a check no questions asked.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Rodrunner

No offense, Dragoneye, but they're destitute now, not years ago, so the changes they've already made haven't helped, have they?

Well...when the changes have just occured within months...and the economy is tanking to the point of moderatre recession. The benefits of these changes just aren't going to be realized, are they?

It's like screwing in a new, more efficient lightbulb, but not flicking the switch.

Originally Posted by Rodrunner

So what have they got to lose by reorganizing under Chapter 11?

Their entire consumer base, and their entire company. Chapter 11 is quickly being considered by everyone (including some of our politicians) as a highway to Chapter 7. That'll help matters.........

Originally Posted by fastball

I didn't realize untill now that while they have made great strides in product, their current business models are drastically behind the 21st century, they do still have lackluster management at all levels, and the problems are so deep rooted that no loan will fix anything.

What's your reasoning behind that statement?? What deep-rooted problems? The 'lackluster' management was responsible for those great new products...

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

They're just so arrogant they thought they'd just walk in and leave with a check no questions asked.

I'm sure they expected questions...they didn't expect such uninformed, biased resistance to a LOAN.

[AZCamaroFan]

What really disgusted me is the media focusing on the CEO's arriving via private jets. i really don't care about that. The company's own the jets. But there it was all day long, all through Nightline even. We gotcha! you're just like the wall street CEO's that partied away the money!
man am i sick of the media.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by azfan

What really disgusted me is the media focusing on the CEO's arriving via private jets. i really don't care about that. The company's own the jets. But there it was all day long, all through Nightline even. We gotcha! you're just like the wall street CEO's that partied away the money!
man am i sick of the media.

I know, I mean its not as if they bought the jets just to go to this meeting. But it would be a better move, from a PR standpoint, if next time for each entourage takes hybrid SUV's: Yukons, Durangos, and Escapes.

[trm0002]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I know, I mean its not as if they bought the jets just to go to this meeting. But it would be a better move, from a PR standpoint, if next time for each entourage takes hybrid SUV's: Yukons, Durangos, and Escapes.

Maybe Wagoner should have driven a Camaro there to show them they're responsive to the public's desire(s)...