Gm needs to bring back the pontiac line

[FenwickHockey65]

and neither you nor GM KNOW FOR SURE "what will be..."

And you don't either. I know for a fact that a percentage of Pontiac owners are going to Chevrolet already. GM won't get all of them back, but they will retain some of them. If GM offers the right incentives to the right people, they will sell cars regardless of "brand loyalty."

Again, letting emotions get in the way of common sense is NOT good business practice. If a division is unprofitable and cannot be salvaged with the resources on hand, it will be killed no matter how many units it sells.

And for the record, Buick and GMC both sold more cars globally than Pontiac.

[HeatherR]

They are doing their best to retain owners of the brands that were cut.

I had a Pontiac and Saab when they were cut.

I received a certificate for a years oil changes, rotations, etc. from Pontiac and different updates, etc. (Saab has been turned in, but replaced with a Cadillac).

The bottom line is GM needs every car they have in their line up to be a success and rebadging cars and dumping them in fleet had to end. Was it cool to have the Solstice and the G8 in the line up sure....but not if you're losing $ on every one you sell!

Brand loyalty is important, but most buyers I talk to are not even aware of what brands fall under the umbrella of "GM" not to mention what other brands are dressed up Hondas and Toyotas....

Offering fewer terrific cars is way more imortant than spreading limited funds thin over too many brands and ending up with ok cars that sell by discounting them via rebates, etc. and dumping them in fleet.

GM would have been much better off if they would have stopped trying to stay #1 and allowed Toyota to just pass them up...cuz dumping cars and losing $ is not a good business practice.

[10CamaroIOM]

I wish they didn't drop Pontiac...never liked that idea. I love the new GTO, and the current Firebird/Trans Ams. They are great cars, and all the Pontiacs I have seen have great style. I wish they would bring the Trans Am back, even if it was for a short time. I took my driving test in a Grand Am...great car.

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

If I told you my perspective is tempered by 32 years of flogging GM product, would that count toward any of my "insight"? I don't speak "theory", I speak "practise"...

I have raced, professionally, on GM's dime...

I have current contacts within the RennCen, who take my calls...

Pontiac was blindsided...in Detroit and throughout the land...

Buick, "almost", a couple years' back, until China caught fire...

You can rationalize ANYTHING...anything...

The fact is, there are 10s of thousands of former GM loyalists, from Divisions mow defunct, who will NEVER grace a GM doorstep again...for myriad reasons, not the least of which are some of these "rationalizations" you so heartily concur with...and neither you nor GM KNOW FOR SURE "what will be..."

As the Market moves forward, GM simply has fewer channels to sell through...which most certainly means a lower % of the Overall Market, regardless of its ultimate size. They may enjoy a higher margin on what they DO sell, but their total numbers will be LESS, overall...and their once-dominating position will NOT return...

Not because I say so, but because those silly Pontiac/Olds/Saturn/Hummer/SAAB owners WILL look/go elsewhere...

Your 32 years of flogging GM product do not make you an expert on how to run the car business. It does appear though, that your hatred toward GM is very personal, not objective, and if any of your business was impacted by the GM bankruptcy, I am in fact sincerely sorry to hear that. That would be a raw deal, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

However, GM is a business, and like any business, its purpose and only means of survival in the long run is making a profit. Market share, brand loyalty, bragging rights, etc...are nice to have, but all are secondary. If there is not profit, NOTHING else matters. If GM was losing money on Pontiac, eliminating it was a rational business decision. I'd rather they make a profit on a smaller number of cars, than lose money on a larger number of cars.

Besides, there really isn't a lot of brand loyalty anymore amongst the general public. I don't think most Saturn, Oldsmobile, and Pontiac owners are any more or less likely to leave or stay with GM than they would have been if those divisions still existed. No doubt there were a few loyal enthusiasts, but as in 2002 with the old Camaro, there were not enough of them alone to keep the doors open. The key to GM's future success is appealing to the car buying public in general, not a dwindling base of brand loyal buyers who buy the brand just for the brand.

In short, GM is finally focusing on the product, not the marketing, which is the direction they need to go in.

[Jiu Jitsu Jon]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

The fact is, there are 10s of thousands of former GM loyalists, from Divisions mow defunct, who will NEVER grace a GM doorstep again...for myriad reasons, not the least of which are some of these "rationalizations" you so heartily concur with...and neither you nor GM KNOW FOR SURE "what will be..."

Not because I say so, but because those silly Pontiac/Olds/Saturn/Hummer/SAAB owners WILL look/go elsewhere...

And that's why my next car will be an R/T Challenger, or maybe even an SRT-8 eventually.

[Mike Jung]

I am glad that I got my Pontiac G8 GT just before they killed Pontiac
& you don't see too many of them on the road too (at least around here).

What am I going to buy next ?

Chevy doesn't have a 4-door sedan with a small block V8 & RWD.

& a CTS-V is slightly just out of my budget lol

I hope the Police officers of North America enjoy the new Chevy Caprice from Australia.


Too bad Holden didn't get a chance to make a Coupe 60 for the world market.
That would of been a bad a$$ coupe, but would of competed with the Camaro.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Mike Jung

I am glad that I got my Pontiac G8 GT just before they killed Pontiac
& you don't see too many of them on the road too (at least around here).

What am I going to buy next ?

Chevy doesn't have a 4-door sedan with a small block V8 & RWD.

& a CTS-V is slightly just out of my budget lol

I hope the Police officers of North America enjoy the new Chevy Caprice from Australia.


Too bad Holden didn't get a chance to make a Coupe 60 for the world market.
That would of been a bed a$$ coupe, but would of competed with the Camaro.

Well...that would depend on when you're planning on getting rid of your G8.

If you wait until, say, 2013...you'll get your answer.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Well...that would depend on when you're planning on getting rid of your G8.

If you wait until, say, 2013...you'll get your answer.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

People on websites like this live in a dream world where everyone is defensively loyal to whatever brand. The truth is that the majority of Pontiac drivers on the road right now couldn't care less that Pontiac's gone, they probably cross-shopped between Chevrolet and Pontiac anyways. There is no denying that every Pontiac minus the G6 Coupe/Convertible, Solstice, and G8 were simply redesigned Chevrolets, and most were outright rebadges.

Letting emotions get in the way of common sense is not the way to run a business. And that's what GM is, a business.

Exactly so don't be thinking that us Yukon drivers wouldn't buy Tahoe/Suburbans if they folded GMC as well.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

The fact is, there are 10s of thousands of former GM loyalists, from Divisions mow defunct, who will NEVER grace a GM doorstep again...for myriad reasons, not the least of which are some of these "rationalizations" you so heartily concur with...and neither you nor GM KNOW FOR SURE "what will be..."

For every Pontiac/Hummer/Saturn/SAAB person who would leave GM due to brand loyalty, I predict 10 will return to GM due to the current and upcoming products from the remaining brands. In other words, GM is on the verge of getting market share back.

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

As the Market moves forward, GM simply has fewer channels to sell through...which most certainly means a lower % of the Overall Market, regardless of its ultimate size. They may enjoy a higher margin on what they DO sell, but their total numbers will be LESS, overall...and their once-dominating position will NOT return...

Not true. Proof? Has Toyota not taken market share away from everyone despite having fewer dealerships than everyone? Yes they have and so there is no reason that GM cannot do the same.

[LOWDOWN]

Here's something to bring a tear to your eye...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...31561#37331561

10-to-1 your 10-to-1 is off a wee bit, Hylton. Your visit, 6 weeks ago in Kingston, was to a shining example of a Dealer who won't come close to filling the void...and he's only one of many in the same pickle...

As for GM emulating Toyota, say it isn't so... You mean, after 25 years together, GM is finally learning something? If GM had paid a little closer attention to Kettering, 55 years ago, and Toyota for the last 25, no telling what the auto landscape might look like today. For GM and for Toyota (without his input)...

People WILL drive for a quality experience; they will NOT drive for a rebate, only. And the perception of Toyota, even now, far surpasses that of GM, much to many people's dismay and outright anger, here...

NOT because I say so, it's just the way it is... "World's Greatest Marketing", someone on here said tongue-in-cheek about Toyota on another thread...and that, my friends, just may be true. So the comments, here, about "product', NOT marketing, is only one part of GM's problems to overcome, and ALL those problems properly and demonstably overcome will be long after most Pontiac/Olds/Saturn/SAAB/HUMMER owners are dead and gone...

RIP

For those of you with a few spare hours on your hands, read "Crash Course". Very illuminating...

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Here's something to bring a tear to your eye...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...31561#37331561

10-to-1 your 10-to-1 is off a wee bit, Hylton. Your visit, 6 weeks ago in Kingston, was to a shining example of a Dealer who won't come close to filling the void...and he's only one of many in the same pickle...

As for GM emulating Toyota, say it isn't so... You mean, after 25 years together, GM is finally learning something? If GM had paid a little closer attention to Kettering, 55 years ago, no telling what the auto landscape might look like today. For GM and for Toyota (without his input)...

For those of you with a few spare hours on your hands, read "Crash Course". Very illuminating...

Save my last post so you can say "I told you so" 5 years from now.....notgonnahappen

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Save my last post so you can say "I told you so" 5 years from now.....notgonnahappen

Hylton, go to autotrader.ca or autotrader.com and see how many "World Class" '09 CTSs and Malibus are for sale...go ahead, I'll wait...

Where did they come from? Trade-ins?

Nope, they came from the same place a good portion of the early Camaro production went...THE RENT-A-WRECK fleets...

GM's fixation, even now, with flooding the Used Car Market with 6-month to 1-year-old "wonders" only enhances their Market Share, NOT their Bottom Line. And the sad fact is, they HAVE to pawn their crap off, there, just to keep their "World Class" products rolling...

Now take a look at the same sources for Lexus...not much to pick from, eh? 'Cause Lexus doesn't "fleet", directly...they simply don't HAVE to...

Bancrupcy, and off-loaded "heritage costs", won't solve that lil "problem"...will it? And that's just the start...

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Hylton, go to autotrader.ca or autotrader.com and see how many "World Class" '09 CTSs and Malibus are for sale...go ahead, I'll wait...

Where did they come from? Trade-ins?

Nope, they came from the same place a good portion of the early Camaro production went...THE RENT-A-WRECK fleets...

GM's fixation, even now, with flooding the Used Car Market with 6-month to 1-year-old "wonders" only enhances their Market Share, NOT their Bottom Line. And the sad fact is, they HAVE to pawn their crap off, there, just to keep their "World Class" products rolling...

Now take a look at the same sources for Lexus...not much to pick from, eh? 'Cause Lexus doesn't "fleet", directly...they simply don't HAVE to...

Bancrupcy, and off-loaded "heritage costs", won't solve that lil "problem"...will it? And that's just the start...

Fair points and I'm not too happy about some of that either but it's only one aspect of the big picture. Chevy's will always be in rental fleets (as are many Toyotas). One of the reasons which GM decided to put the World Class cars into the rental fleets was so as many consumers as possible could get behind the wheel of new GM products. Yes, the fallout to that are the rentals eventually go to market but did GM sell a few cars because of this initiative? I think so.

As for Cadillac, I have a big problem with GM's practice of selling them to rental car companies. It just lowers Cadillacs status. If you are supposed to be competing with Mercedes, BMW and Audi, you had better do whatever you can to improve the brands image.

My offer still stands though....keep my previous post so you can PWN me!