Perceptions Die... OK Say Again Y Foreign is Better

[lil_chef]

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

Ummmm I apologize. I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feeling by "typing" loud.

now that you have said that, my hearing has seam to have deteriorated over the past 24 hours........................

HOW DOES IT MAKE YOU FEEL

[kevin2323]

Originally Posted by lil_chef

i agree that its ugly. but i think i would enjoy being able to sit in the back seat (im 6'3) and have plenty of room to spare.

that being said i would NEVER buy the panamera when the Cadillac is just as good for half the price. although im sure the panamera has that porsche driving charm that ive become addicted to.

i agree

[All-Or-Nothing]

Originally Posted by lil_chef

there is nothing to disagree with.

most of the people buying the XTS either wont care or wont be able to tell the difference if it's FWD or RWD. if cadillac puts as much attention into it as it did to the new CTS (i know they will) the XTS will be a class leading vehicle, FWD or RWD.

EXACTLY

[rayhawk]

The panamera is a hideous mistake. It is like making the Corvette a 4 door. It sounds like a good idea, but it takes away from the Corvettes identity. Porsche could have made a nice sedan, but to use the standard front end was a mistake.

The CTS-V is an awesome car, I wish they would start to advertise it again like they did with the previous generation.

[rayhawk]

FWD is perfect for the market the Buick goes after, but I have to disagree on it for the Cadillac. AWD as an option over FWD is not much improvement, IMO, as it is not worth the extra cost, complexity, and loss in efficiency. Please GM, keep as many Cadillac's RWD as possible!

[rayhawk]

Originally Posted by lil_chef

There is no doubt in my mind that cadillac is reestablishing itself as the top luxury company in the world. the XTS will be a class leading vehicle that should put the 7 series to shame. the biggest thing cadillac has to combat is........ Public opinion.

my dad is in the process of purchasing a new daily driver as his Cayman is slowly being turned into a full fledge track car. unfortunately he said he won't even consider a CTS-V and would much rather get the upcoming next gen M5, just because of how GM handled bankruptcy

What does that mean, How they handled bankruptcy? Do you mean taking public funds? I could understand that, but it is not as if the Europeans don't subsidize every industry they have, so tell him at least his money is going to the home team. Actually, the Europeans are even subsidized by US tax dollars in many states, so depending on where you live, he may be contributing to them with his taxes anyway.

Ok, sorry for the off-topic rant.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by lil_chef

not to kill the mood, but thanks to porsche the CTS-v is no longer the fastest production V8 in the world. it is simply the best bang for the buck considering it is half the price of the twin turbo panamera.

i would be interested to see how a manual CTS-V does around the ring though. to see if it can improve cadillac's time by 3 seconds to tie porsche.

Quick point... the Panamera was quicker around the ring... but it is still not the fastest car because the RING is not the guage by which car's performance is measured. The Cobalt SS was faster around the Ring than some M3s for instance.

Panamera Turbo

• MSRP: $132,600
• 500hp
• 0-60 mph: 4.0 seconds
• Top Speed: 188 mph

CTS-V

• MSRP: $59,995
• 556hp
• 0-60 mph: 3.9 seconds
• Top Speed: 193 mph (manny)

[MCPOAJ]

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

Quick point... the Panamera was quicker around the ring... but it is still not the fastest car because the RING is not the guage by which car's performance is measured. The Cobalt SS was faster around the Ring than some M3s for instance.

Panamera Turbo

• MSRP: $132,600
• 500hp
• 0-60 mph: 4.0 seconds
• Top Speed: 188 mph

CTS-V

• MSRP: $59,995
• 556hp
• 0-60 mph: 3.9 seconds
• Top Speed: 193 mph (manny)

And it's a peice of shit

[syr74]

I have to agree on the Ring, waaaaaay over-rated. First, there is no real governing body to determine how 'honest' the participants actually are so I can more or less work whatever VooDoo I choose if I want to 'win' badly enough. Two, despite the perception that the Ring is somehow the best single indicator of how a car performs in general the truth is that the Ring, like all race tracks, favors certain types of cars.

Example? As a Ford guy I obviously have an affinity for the Shelby Cobra roadsters of the 60's, the 289ci version of which was extremely successful in FIA competition.......everywhere but the Ring. Why? The Ring favors cars which perform well at sustained high speeds......very high speeds. The Cobra's somewhat brick-like aerodynamics rendered the car nearly useless at the Ring despite the genuinely fearsome reputation the car acquired, and deservedly so, elsewhere. If Shelby's rivals had gone to the Ring first and used the performance of cars there as a benchmark for what could be expected elsewhere they would have been extremely disappointed. That said, I have long been surprised that nobody has yet noticed that all the great racers of yore who likely knew the Nurb far better than most folks wheeling cars around that track today never imbued it with such mythical properties. Put simply, there is no magic race track that is somehow a benchmark indication of overall performance.

As for the CTS-V....easily the best car GM has produced since the 63-67 Stingray and without doubt one of the five best cars GM has ever built. As for any comparisons to the Panamera......the difference here is that the Panamera is arguably pretty silly while the Caddy isn't. That said, I still do not understand the lack of a naturally aspirated, LS3 V8 in this car.....huge oversight IMHO.

[Rtoups]

Testing around the Nurburgring tends to spoil cars, especially luxury cars.

Anyways, I much prefer the Jaguar XF.

[All-Or-Nothing]

Originally Posted by lil_chef

i agree that its ugly. but i think i would enjoy being able to sit in the back seat (im 6'3) and have plenty of room to spare.

that being said i would NEVER buy the panamera when the Cadillac is just as good for half the price. although im sure the panamera has that porsche driving charm that ive become addicted to.

I am glad no one gets to choose how I spend my money. (well maybe the wife) Money is not always a concern if you really want something. That's why some people will pay 10k over MSRP for a 2010 Camaro.

[Crowley]

you lucky SOB

[AZCamaroFan]

CTS-V rules.

and the same politicians who say America doesn't build cars people want....ride around in Cadillac limo's.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by syr74

I have to agree on the Ring, waaaaaay over-rated. First, there is no real governing body to determine how 'honest' the participants actually are so I can more or less work whatever VooDoo I choose if I want to 'win' badly enough. Two, despite the perception that the Ring is somehow the best single indicator of how a car performs in general the truth is that the Ring, like all race tracks, favors certain types of cars.

Exactly... I have never been to the Ring.. and probably never will take one of my cars over to Germany to run on the road course. Most idiots fell in love with the "Ring" after the whole "Nissan GT-R" bullcrap came on line back in 2007. Another car with great performance that is about as nasty to look at as Rosie O' Donnel in a THONG... on her PERIOD, with a PAD THAT AIN'T DOING THE JOB

The list below shows that the RING is certainly not a course that has only to do with SPEED.. but mostly handling. That is not to say thatthe CTS-V is not as good a handler as the Porsche Pana.... but its AWD certainly didn't hurt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring_lap_times


7:56 minutes for the Porsche... 7:59 for the Cadillac (a Z51 Vette gets the same as the CTS-V btw)

As for the CTS-V....easily the best car GM has produced since the 63-67 Stingray and without doubt one of the five best cars GM has ever built. As for any comparisons to the Panamera......the difference here is that the Panamera is arguably pretty silly while the Caddy isn't. That said, I still do not understand the lack of a naturally aspirated, LS3 V8 in this car.....huge oversight IMHO. Today 10:30 AM

I won't call the Porsche silly.. just ugly as a mofo. From a PURIST'S point of view... a 4-Door Porsche is about as bad as Chevy taking the G8 GXP... slapping 4 circular lights on it and calling it the Corvette Z04. But HEY!!! Porsche did take a Touareg and create the Cayenne

As for your misunderstanding of the LS3 not showing up in the CTS to compete with the 550i... I am right there with U. I blame it on the STS. How GM came to terms with themselves having a Pontiac Sedan with 360HP and 415HP while having it's Flagship Division have to make do with a 304HP V6 and 320HP V8 is beyond me. For those who would argue that the Small-Block is not advanced enough to go into a Cadillac.. I point U directly to the CTS-V.. and the Escalade.. Then take a drive in just a G8 GT, and U will realize that the LS engine is as smooth as anything from Lexus, BMW, or Benz when not coupled with an aggressive toned exhaust