Do you need a timing cover gasket to do oil pump?

[Scooter18155]

I am pulling my pan so I am installing a new oil pump while in there. What do I need besides pump and oil pan gasket? I looked at video on you tube that seemed to imply oil pump requires taking off the timing chain cover? I don’t think you need to go that far am I wrong?

[Rons1le]

Yes and you can do it without taking the oil pan off. LS3 oil pumps are driven on the crank shaft behind the timing gear.

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[Scooter18155]

Originally Posted by Rons1le

Yes and you can do it without taking the oil pan off. LS3 oil pumps are driven on the crank shaft behind the timing gear.

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Yes that is my understanding. I am pulling entire pan anyways as my broken dipstick tube in the bottom of it. Car has 94,000 miles on it anyways so I figure it would be good preventative maintenance considering the pan will be dropped anyways.

However I looked up video on you tube (trying to get visual familiarity with what I have to do) and the video claimed to remove timing chain cover to replace the pump. It wasn’t the greatest video but I am no expert mechanic or anything but I not sure why the timing cover has to come off? But I’m not familiar with ls motors either.

[Scooter18155]

This is the video I watched I know the oil pan had to be lowered or removed but didn’t think the whole front of motor had to come apart.

https://youtu.be/j1gRcy1Vv1s

[gtstorey]

LS engine diagram
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...l#&gid=1&pid=3

See image 3.

[larry_g]

Yes you should replace the timing cover gasket. While you're at it, you'll probably need water pump gaskets and you may want to replace the front seal too.

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[RobZL1]

You 100% must remove the timing cover.

[Scooter18155]

Ty everyone for the response. I ordered a gasket kit that has water pump gasket timing cover gasket and the crank seal. I honestly thought I would only need the pan gasket to get the oil pump done. I guess cough it up to more preventative maintenance lol but it’s a lot more work then I was thinking was involved.

[gunchamp]

Originally Posted by larry_g

Yes you should replace the timing cover gasket. While you're at it, you'll probably need water pump gaskets and you may want to replace the front seal too.

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This right here

[gunchamp]

Originally Posted by Rons1le

Yes and you can do it without taking the oil pan off. LS3 oil pumps are driven on the crank shaft behind the timing gear.

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It would be a nightmare to not drop the oil pan down a touch. There is zero room there. I dropped my pan down as much as i could, which was only 3/4" or so, but all of it was needed. Could not have got my fingers in there

[Scooter18155]

Originally Posted by gunchamp

It would be a nightmare to not drop the oil pan down a touch. There is zero room there. I dropped my pan down as much as i could, which was only 3/4" or so, but all of it was needed. Could not have got my fingers in there

I’m getting the flanges to remove the crossmember under the oil pan. I have to drop the oil pan as my oil dip stick tube broke off trying to remove it to do headers. So I intend on taking the pan out entirely. Considering I’m going this far I figured I might as well do the oil pump. However due to my unfamiliarity with ls based engines I naturally was thinking it was somewhat similar to older Chevy based engines where the oil pump was rear of the motor. My oil pump is still good and hasn’t failed yet but it has 94,000 miles on it as well. Looking at my timing cover today I notice it looks kinda wet so there may be minor leakage going on there. I have zl1 belly pan and don’t notice any oil accumulation on it so I don’t think it’s a big leak. Basically I’m going forward with changing out the oil pump reguardless it isn’t what I thought as it’ll not only replace pump but hopefully clear up whatever leaking in the process. I may even go as far as putting a new timing set on while I’m in that far haven’t decided yet.

[InFiD3ViL]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

You 100% must remove the timing cover.

Yep, no way around that.

I would also suggest replacing the front cover crank seal while you have it off. The front timing cover gasket itself is reusable, but I would replace it also. These are inexpensive parts that can save from future headaches. You will want to use some black or red RTV on the corners of the pan when it mates with the timing cover and blue Loctite for the pump to block bolts. Most online write-ups will explain materials needed further.

Depending on your budget there are quite a few inexpensive and easy upgrades you can do while you are in there. LS2 'dogbone' timing chain tensioner upgrade, timing chain upgrade or replacement, ARP crank balancer bolt (You MUST replace your crank bolt, so why not go with ARP?) , and all associated gaskets and seals.

Originally Posted by Scooter18155

However I looked up video on you tube (trying to get visual familiarity with what I have to do) and the video claimed to remove timing chain cover to replace the pump. It wasn’t the greatest video but I am no expert mechanic or anything but I not sure why the timing cover has to come off? But I’m not familiar with ls motors either.

The timing cover is blocking access to the 4 bolts that hold the pump to the block. But the main reason is because it is a crank driven pump, where the crank snout passes through the center of the pump. You would not be able to slide the pump off the crank snout if the cover is still on, even if you found a way to remove the bolts. With the pan removed, the only thing you really have access to concerning the oil pump is the pickup tube bolt. I know it sounds like a pain in the ass but it's really not that bad as long as you have the proper tools. You are going to need an LS balancer puller and also a balancer install tool would be recommended. From the top you will remove the 2 belts, water pump, loosen the alternator so it can be pivoted to the right (so you can remove the cover), balancer, and anything else that gives you more room to work, such as CAI tubing and hoses, throttle body, etc.

You will also need a few torque wrenches to complete the job per specs, to cover from as low as 18 ft lbs all the way to 250+ ft pounds. Your best bet for detailed instructions is to find one of the quality Cam Swap walkthroughs available on this site, unless you can find a good oil pump swap walkthrough. That will include pretty much every step and torque value needed. Then you can skip any of the valvetrain related stuff and only use what pertains to your upgrades.

I am missing quite a bit of detail here, but I wanted to kind of give you to idea that this really needs good planning to go nice and smooth. Make a list of all the tools, parts, and materials you will need to complete the job this way you are not constantly having to stop working to hunt something down. I can't stress enough how important it is to have proper tools on hand. That will make the difference between an easy one day project vs a multiday nightmare hunting down everything needed.

[gunchamp]

Originally Posted by Scooter18155

I’m getting the flanges to remove the crossmember under the oil pan. I have to drop the oil pan as my oil dip stick tube broke off trying to remove it to do headers. So I intend on taking the pan out entirely. Considering I’m going this far I figured I might as well do the oil pump. However due to my unfamiliarity with ls based engines I naturally was thinking it was somewhat similar to older Chevy based engines where the oil pump was rear of the motor. My oil pump is still good and hasn’t failed yet but it has 94,000 miles on it as well. Looking at my timing cover today I notice it looks kinda wet so there may be minor leakage going on there. I have zl1 belly pan and don’t notice any oil accumulation on it so I don’t think it’s a big leak. Basically I’m going forward with changing out the oil pump reguardless it isn’t what I thought as it’ll not only replace pump but hopefully clear up whatever leaking in the process. I may even go as far as putting a new timing set on while I’m in that far haven’t decided yet.

You are gonna love working on this motor. Gm knocked it out of the park with ease of doing almost anything in there. Had a blast building mine and cant wait honestly to get back in there