'Green Motors' Dumps their Mess on Taxpayers

[syr74]

For the love of basic economic sanity, and common sense for that matter, when do the freebies stop for this company? Now the taxpayers gets to pick up the tab for cleaning up the General's mess too? And please, before somebody says it, this is not standards bankruptcy practice......GM's entire bankruptcy has been anything but standard.

Green Motors my ass.




http://www.freep.com/article/2009080...polluted-sites

[Zabo]

...And nothing of value was lost. GM's back in the game; those plants were a burden already outlined to be shoved under GM-ocrap, not New GM.

Not our problem. Lets just enjoy our Camaros people.

[Bullitt]

Originally Posted by Zabo

Not our problem.

You don't pay taxes?

[Zabo]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

You don't pay taxes?

Yes, but this doesn't give me reason to cry about it. It's not killing me, so if it means paying a bit more to clean it up who cares? As long as it's cleaned up.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Zabo

Yes, but this doesn't give me reason to cry about it. It's not killing me, so if it means paying a bit more to clean it up who cares? As long as it's cleaned up.

Here's a thought. How 'bout the folks who made the mess clean it up and not my tax dollars? Sound fair to you?

[Zabo]

Originally Posted by syr74

Here's a thought. How 'bout the folks who made the mess clean it up and not my tax dollars? Sound fair to you?

Yes, this is GM-world. Not Earth. /sarcasm

If they can't foot the bill, and it needs to be done..why don't we get off our duff and just foot the damn bill. It's only gonna accumulate. They can only do so much with what they have at this point.

Jeez.. this is over 90 years of archaic infrastructure they have to deal with, not a barrel of two of toxic poo. I can understand your point of view but the economics on this just by sheer scale makes the move by the courts actually make sense. Look at GM in the 60s and all the BS they dumped back then until today.

This is what they have to clean up. It'd kill them outright.

You want China to be building your Mustang/Camaro/Challenger/ in 20 years go ahead. I'm giving GM the benefit on this one just because of it not being a single plant or two. They just. Cant. Do it.

At this point, I may not agree with Obama and his Chicago Admin.. but the whole damn system of the US needs to be overhauled. I am just as patrotic and US loving as the next mid-westerner; but after taking a hard look I DO see the writing on the wall. This isn't 1977 where the US was on top of the world. And part of it is this whole decision to let GM off the hook. The next 20 years are going to be a charlie-fox kids.. hold onto your butts.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Zabo

Yes, this is GM-world. Not Earth. /sarcasm

If they can't foot the bill, and it needs to be done..why don't we get off our duff and just foot the damn bill. It's only gonna accumulate. They can only do so much with what they have at this point.

Jeez.. this is over 90 years of archaic infrastructure they have to deal with, not a barrel of two of toxic poo. I can understand your point of view but the economics on this just by sheer scale makes the move by the courts actually make sense. Look at GM in the 60s and all the BS they dumped back then until today.

This is what they have to clean up. It'd kill them outright.

You want China to be building your Mustang/Camaro/Challenger/ in 20 years go ahead. I'm giving GM the benefit on this one just because of it not being a single plant or two. They just. Cant. Do it.

At this point, I may not agree with Obama and his Chicago Admin.. but the whole damn system of the US needs to be overhauled. I am just as patrotic and US loving as the next mid-westerner; but after taking a hard look I DO see the writing on the wall. This isn't 1977 where the US was on top of the world. And part of it is this whole decision to let GM off the hook. The next 20 years are going to be a charlie-fox kids.. hold onto your butts.

And perhaps we should have simply let capitalism take it's course? Or put more simply, maybe we shouldn't be bailing out companies with archaic, 90 year old infrastructures? GM either needed to figure this one out themselves or die. And yes, that horse has already left the barn so to speak with the bailout already having occured, but the backlash seems severe enough to jeopardize the future of the GM revitalization. As more info like this creeps out, and Joe public slowly realizes just how expensive this bail-out really is, I don't expect things to get better.

I'm considering a new sedan and had actually taken a look at a G8 if for no other reason than the simple fact that the G8 and 300 are the only two, affordable rwd sedans on the market. Neither remains a consideration at this point, and the cars themselves were not the determining factor here. How many more like me exist?

People on this forum are forver yamering about supporting American by supporting GM. The truth? Ridiculous left leaning tactics like the bailout of GM couldn't be less American. If you want to support the capitalist America that gave us the standard of living we enjoy today and ensured our freedoms, you have exactly one car maker left to support.

[coolman]

Originally Posted by syr74

And perhaps we should have simply let capitalism take it's course? Or put more simply, maybe we shouldn't be bailing out companies with archaic, 90 year old infrastructures? GM either needed to figure this one out themselves or die. And yes, that horse has already left the barn so to speak with the bailout already having occured, but the backlash seems severe enough to jeopardize the future of the GM revitalization. As more info like this creeps out, and Joe public slowly realizes just how expensive this bail-out really is, I don't expect things to get better.

I'm considering a new sedan and had actually taken a look at a G8 if for no other reason than the simple fact that the G8 and 300 are the only two, affordable rwd sedans on the market. Neither remains a consideration at this point, and the cars themselves were not the determining factor here. How many more like me exist?

People on this forum are forver yamering about supporting American by supporting GM. The truth? Ridiculous left leaning tactics like the bailout of GM couldn't be less American. If you want to support the capitalist America that gave us the standard of living we enjoy today and ensured our freedoms, you have exactly one car maker left to support.

I'm mixed on this topic. because I own a business and I can tell you knowone would bail my ass out if I were in trouble. To me, in the world I live in and the people I employ I am to important to fail. But, I would hate to see gm or chrysler go.

[Zabo]

Originally Posted by syr74

And perhaps we should have simply let capitalism take it's course? Or put more simply, maybe we shouldn't be bailing out companies with archaic, 90 year old infrastructures? GM either needed to figure this one out themselves or die. And yes, that horse has already left the barn so to speak with the bailout already having occured, but the backlash seems severe enough to jeopardize the future of the GM revitalization. As more info like this creeps out, and Joe public slowly realizes just how expensive this bail-out really is, I don't expect things to get better.

I'm considering a new sedan and had actually taken a look at a G8 if for no other reason than the simple fact that the G8 and 300 are the only two, affordable rwd sedans on the market. Neither remains a consideration at this point, and the cars themselves were not the determining factor here. How many more like me exist?

People on this forum are forver yamering about supporting American by supporting GM. The truth? Ridiculous left leaning tactics like the bailout of GM couldn't be less American. If you want to support the capitalist America that gave us the standard of living we enjoy today and ensured our freedoms, you have exactly one car maker left to support.

But here in lies the problem: Capitalism, in its purest form can only work to a point.

After that, it becomes succeptible to greed and corruption, like everything else in the world. It's damn human nature. It's the same reason why the Soviet Union, the definition of evil socalism, fell in the late 80s. If you look at what happened during Perestroika.. you'd see that just as much corruption is going on in WS and DC as there were in Moscow in 1985.

I used to be a proponent of Capitalism, until I did a case study on Sweden. If you see what they do for Sven O. Pubvic you'd be amazed. They're so much like us there, but pay 80% taxes and don't mind it..

For what?

To have something to fall back on when shit hits the fan. You lose your job, you go back to school for free to get another line of work. Seriously, look at Swedish Socialism.

I used to fear it because I thought it was Commie BS like Russia. But now I actually see what Obama is trying to do. What I don't like is this corruption creeping into it which turns everyone off of it.

[coolman]

Originally Posted by Zabo

But here in lies the problem: Capitalism, in its purest form can only work to a point.

After that, it becomes succeptible to greed and corruption, like everything else in the world. It's damn human nature. It's the same reason why the Soviet Union, the definition of evil socalism, fell in the late 80s. If you look at what happened during Perestroika.. you'd see that just as much corruption is going on in WS and DC as there were in Moscow in 1985.

I used to be a proponent of Capitalism, until I did a case study on Sweden. If you see what they do for Sven O. Pubvic you'd be amazed. They're so much like us there, but pay 80% taxes and don't mind it..

For what?

To have something to fall back on when shit hits the fan. You lose your job, you go back to school for free to get another line of work. Seriously, look at Swedish Socialism.

I used to fear it because I thought it was Commie BS like Russia. But now I actually see what Obama is trying to do. What I don't like is this corruption creeping into it which turns everyone off of it.

I see they got you brain washed just like the rest of the country. I hope you liked your freedom.

[Zabo]

Originally Posted by coolman

I see they got you brain washed just like the rest of the country. I hope you liked your freedom.

Not brainwashed.

Obama I don't agree with. I just see what he's trying to do.

I agree with one thing: Survival of Freedom and the American way of Life.

Capitalism, Corporate greed.. that's not the American Way of life..

Communism.. not the way of the American way of life..

But there is another way.. and this isn't the place to discuss this. So I'll leave it at that. Request mod lock because I've essentially crossed the political line with this post.

[Blownhotrodder]

I agree, this is not the way these things need to be fixed. This has set a presidence for future lousily ran companies to be "bailed out" of their troubles. This is not the end, just the beginning of that stuff.

[Vash]

Yea and note that Canadian Auto Workers... fine people.. build Camaro. Not UAW. Because UAW was too expensive...

UAW is at least half or more of the problem. They should be wiped out and a new union made that's "reasonable" in it's demands and not building 30+ million dollar golf courses.

[Russo]

i find it funny that every time Obama gets in front the camera he's screaming about how we have to react fast to save GM, healthcare, unemployement, etc etc... if you look at the stats, by acting (throwing money at the problem and creating bigger government) has done nothing to stop the inevitable...