Financing more money to save money?

[DaBears]

Hey Guys,

I am about 2 years or so away from getting a new car. I have 2 favorites as of right now. I am planning on having $5000 to put down and im planning on my POS Kia to be worth about $1000 trade in value. So here is how each vehicle breaks down financially. I am going to finance for 5 years and lets estimate 2.9% for the rate.

-Subaru XV Crosstrek 2.0i limited with an MSRP of $25,290.
- This package includes leather and a nicer stereo over the standard XV Crosstrek which is cloth and more standard features.
- monthly payment of $345
- MPG 25/33

-New Generation Ford Fusion Hybrid SE with the "appearance pkg"
MSRP of $28,495
- The package includes fog lamps and other outside things like a spoiler
-cloth seating, no leather, it has my ford and sync (not my ford touch)
- MPG 47/47
- monthly payment of $404


See here is how the math is going in my head. Both cars are being financed for the same amount of time, the Fusion is just more per month. However, 47MPG in the city is no joke. My current car gets around the city MPG as the Subaru would and I fill up my tank every 2 weeks at an average cost of $40.

So am I thinking right? It seems like it makes more financial sense to get the Hybrid even though I would be financing more money. The hybrid would seem to save me so much money on gas that I would come out ahead in the total cost to own. Especially over time.

I plan to keep my new ride for 10 years. The hybrid would get over 700 miles per tank of gas in the city which means I would fill up every 6 weeks on average.

Anyone see the math differently?

[880]

So you basically want to know if it is worth getting a hybrid?

Depends on a lot of things. Most important is how many miles you drive?

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by DaBears

Hey Guys,

I am about 2 years or so away from getting a new car. I have 2 favorites as of right now. I am planning on having $5000 to put down and im planning on my POS Kia to be worth about $1000 trade in value. So here is how each vehicle breaks down financially. I am going to finance for 5 years and lets estimate 2.9% for the rate.

-Subaru XV Crosstrek 2.0i limited with an MSRP of $25,290.
- This package includes leather and a nicer stereo over the standard XV Crosstrek which is cloth and more standard features.
- monthly payment of $345
- MPG 25/33

-New Generation Ford Fusion Hybrid SE with the "appearance pkg"
MSRP of $28,495
- The package includes fog lamps and other outside things like a spoiler
-cloth seating, no leather, it has my ford and sync (not my ford touch)
- MPG 47/47
- monthly payment of $404


See here is how the math is going in my head. Both cars are being financed for the same amount of time, the Fusion is just more per month. However, 47MPG in the city is no joke. My current car gets around the city MPG as the Subaru would and I fill up my tank every 2 weeks at an average cost of $40.

So am I thinking right? It seems like it makes more financial sense to get the Hybrid even though I would be financing more money. The hybrid would seem to save me so much money on gas that I would come out ahead in the total cost to own. Especially over time.

I plan to keep my new ride for 10 years. The hybrid would get over 700 miles per tank of gas in the city which means I would fill up every 6 weeks on average.

Anyone see the math differently?

I see it differently.

You didn't post the gas tank size so we can't get exact figures here so we'll do it another way. Let's go ahead and raise the Fords city MPG to 50 instead of 47. This was it will be double the Subaru's city MPG of 25.

Now you said yourself that your current car gets the same MPG as the Subaru so if you put the same amount of gas in both cars then that would mean you would fill up the Subaru every 2 weeks with roughly $40, or $80 a month.

Now with the adjusted city MPG of the Ford, it would go twice as far as the Subaru with the same amount of gas so you would put $40 in every 4 weeks, so $40 a month.

Now the Ford costs an extra $60 a month on the car payment so if both cars was financed for 5 years, the Ford would cost an extra $60 a month just to save $40 on gas for a total loss of $20 a month, or $240 a year, or $1,200 over the course of the loan. In order to break even just on gas usage you would have to own the Ford for 7.5 years vs the Subaru's 5 years. During this 2.5 year difference you will not have a warranty (they both have a 5 year power train warranty) so you will also have to take into account repairs. If you extend the Fords ownership to 10 years you will only be $1,200 ahead but during this 5 years just one repair will wipe out that amount fairly easily. Also something else to take into account of total cost of ownership is resale value. In 10 years which will resale higher, the Subaru or the Ford hybrid?

Please remember all this is based on your current gas usage and prices.

[MMC]

Actual mileage may vary.

[DaBears]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

I see it differently.

You didn't post the gas tank size so we can't get exact figures here so we'll do it another way. Let's go ahead and raise the Fords city MPG to 50 instead of 47. This was it will be double the Subaru's city MPG of 25.

Now you said yourself that your current car gets the same MPG as the Subaru so if you put the same amount of gas in both cars then that would mean you would fill up the Subaru every 2 weeks with roughly $40, or $80 a month.

Now with the adjusted city MPG of the Ford, it would go twice as far as the Subaru with the same amount of gas so you would put $40 in every 4 weeks, so $40 a month.

Now the Ford costs an extra $60 a month on the car payment so if both cars was financed for 5 years, the Ford would cost an extra $60 a month just to save $40 on gas for a total loss of $20 a month, or $240 a year, or $1,200 over the course of the loan. In order to break even just on gas usage you would have to own the Ford for 7.5 years vs the Subaru's 5 years. During this 2.5 year difference you will not have a warranty (they both have a 5 year power train warranty) so you will also have to take into account repairs. If you extend the Fords ownership to 10 years you will only be $1,200 ahead but during this 5 years just one repair will wipe out that amount fairly easily. Also something else to take into account of total cost of ownership is resale value. In 10 years which will resale higher, the Subaru or the Ford hybrid?

Please remember all this is based on your current gas usage and prices.

I drive 18 miles a day for work. We use our Equinox when we go out. However that would change if I had to brand new car. The new car would become our going places car and would only use the equinox if I needed the extra room.

I do see what you're saying though.

Fyi the Subaru gas tank is 15.9 gallons and 14 for the Hybrid

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

if you drive highway or city streets over 40mph, if you jack rabbit from light to light, then the hybrid will be worthless, and cost you the same for fuel as a normal 4 banger.

we have a Camry Hybrid, my wife drives it, she does not drive freeways, and she purposely keeps it under 40 mph to keep it in electric mode. She gets 51mpg in it, just over 900 miles per tank and fills it once every 5-6 weeks @ $65 or so (18 gallon tank, usually takes about 16.5 gallon @ fill)

She drives a total of 27 miles per day (M-F and it is parked all weekend usually), all stop and go and all under 40mph, and she drives like a grandma, slow starts, coast to stop and she uses the Electric Motor "B" brake downshift mode to force and keep the car in electric mode (basically on the gear shift there is a "B" where "L"ow would be and by downshifting into "B" it forces the car to use the electric motor to brake the car, and keeps the gas motor off.

77K miles since 2007 86 fill ups @ avg of $3.50 per gallon for avg of 16.5 gallons or about $5000 in fuel in 5 years..

Compare that to me, I drive less miles (about 14 a day) and spend about $3500/year in fuel for my vehicles..

[DaBears]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

I see it differently.

You didn't post the gas tank size so we can't get exact figures here so we'll do it another way. Let's go ahead and raise the Fords city MPG to 50 instead of 47. This was it will be double the Subaru's city MPG of 25.

Now you said yourself that your current car gets the same MPG as the Subaru so if you put the same amount of gas in both cars then that would mean you would fill up the Subaru every 2 weeks with roughly $40, or $80 a month.

Now with the adjusted city MPG of the Ford, it would go twice as far as the Subaru with the same amount of gas so you would put $40 in every 4 weeks, so $40 a month.

Now the Ford costs an extra $60 a month on the car payment so if both cars was financed for 5 years, the Ford would cost an extra $60 a month just to save $40 on gas for a total loss of $20 a month, or $240 a year, or $1,200 over the course of the loan. In order to break even just on gas usage you would have to own the Ford for 7.5 years vs the Subaru's 5 years. During this 2.5 year difference you will not have a warranty (they both have a 5 year power train warranty) so you will also have to take into account repairs. If you extend the Fords ownership to 10 years you will only be $1,200 ahead but during this 5 years just one repair will wipe out that amount fairly easily. Also something else to take into account of total cost of ownership is resale value. In 10 years which will resale higher, the Subaru or the Ford hybrid?

Please remember all this is based on your current gas usage and prices.

Ok i just figured it out, you're right.

If i drive 7200miles in a year for example the math is like this.

7200mile divided by 47mpg (hybrid)= 153 gallons for the year
7200 divided by 25 (subaru) = 288 gallons for the year

at $3.75/gallon it would cost $573.75 in gas for the hybrid for the year in addition to the ($404 per month X 12) $4848 = $5421.75 cost to own hybrid for one year.

Subaru under the same math equals $5220 for the year cost to own.

So I would be paying an extra $201.75 per year to own the hybrid. Which equals to around an extra $1000 for the 5 year loan to own the hybrid.

However, here is the kicker, if i take away the $1,000 appearance package and setting for the plain jane hybrid, i believe the hybrid would come out on top.

Either way...........its really close between the 2 cars.

The XV Crosstrek is really appealing but so is the hybrid. DECISIONS!!

[DaBears]

Originally Posted by Mr. iNCREDIBLE

if you drive highway or city streets over 40mph, if you jack rabbit from light to light, then the hybrid will be worthless, and cost you the same for fuel as a normal 4 banger.

we have a Camry Hybrid, my wife drives it, she does not drive freeways, and she purposely keeps it under 40 mph to keep it in electric mode. She gets 51mpg in it, just over 900 miles per tank and fills it once every 5-6 weeks @ $65 or so (18 gallon tank, usually takes about 16.5 gallon @ fill)

She drives a total of 27 miles per day (M-F and it is parked all weekend usually), all stop and go and all under 40mph, and she drives like a grandma, slow starts, coast to stop and she uses the Electric Motor "B" brake downshift mode to force and keep the car in electric mode (basically on the gear shift there is a "B" where "L"ow would be and by downshifting into "B" it forces the car to use the electric motor to brake the car, and keeps the gas motor off.

77K miles since 2007 86 fill ups @ avg of $3.50 per gallon for avg of 16.5 gallons or about $5000 in fuel in 5 years..

Compare that to me, I drive less miles (about 14 a day) and spend about $3500/year in fuel for my vehicles..

The problem with your statement is that the new fusion hybrid can travel 63mph on the electric alone, so I dont think "jack rabbit driving" applies.

[DaBears]

I just applied the same math to a Fusion hybrid with no options at all and the hybrid only wins out by $14.25 per year. LOL This means a lot because it would actually be smarter to get the ecoboost model which is cheaper than hybrid and will get i believe they said 37MPG. That means it would save me more money over the subaru than the hybrid

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Originally Posted by DaBears

The problem with your statement is that the new fusion hybrid can travel 63mph on the electric alone, so I dont think "jack rabbit driving" applies.

yes it does, it will kick out of electric mode (as does the Volt, and the Prius) if you accelerate too hard, read the small print..

while the new batteries have raised the speed from 47mph to 63mph, they still kick in the gas motor to assist in acceleration if you floor it..


Hybrids are great technology, and if you are a primary city, stop and go driver; they are great because that is where your MPG takes the biggest hit.

but if you drive highways at highway speed, or a mix of both, they have no advantage over a normal gas vehicle.

[drummer5679]

get a motorcycle

[Ocikat]

Originally Posted by Mr. iNCREDIBLE

yes it does, it will kick out of electric mode (as does the Volt, and the Prius) if you accelerate too hard, read the small print..

while the new batteries have raised the speed from 47mph to 63mph, they still kick in the gas motor to assist in acceleration if you floor it..


Hybrids are great technology, and if you are a primary city, stop and go driver they are great because that is where your MPG takes the biggest hit.

but if you drive highways at highway speed, or a mix of both, they have no advantage over a normal gas vehicle.

Chevys Volt is not a hybrid, it's gasoline motor powers a generator which in turn provides energy to the electric motor to drive the vehichle and recharges the battery.

DaBears; while planning a major purchase such as a car is to be comended, 2 years out is a bit premature to calculate your cost of ownership. Certainly the vehichle prices, financing rates, fuel costs, fuel milage and other factors will not remain the same as today. consider also there are many more factors to determine the true cost of ownership of a vehicle, factor in the insurance costs, maintenance, tax incentives, plus a few other items. Best of luck with your new purchace when that happens. Planning is the key to making good decisions !!

[matt55]

Fusion just on looks alone .
What is ford vs subi finance options/best rates ?
Who will work more with you on price ( I would bet )

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Originally Posted by Ocikat

Chevys Volt is not a hybrid, it's gasoline motor powers a generator which in turn provides energy to the electric motor to drive the vehichle and recharges the battery.

sorry you are incorrect.. The Chevy Volt is a Hybrid and the gas motor does assist in the providing power to the wheels.

Direct quote from Volt executive engineer Larry Nitz:
http://gm-volt.com/2010/10/15/clarif...ing-at-30-mph/

The engine WILL NOT turn on while the car is in electric driving mode (which for your trip two days ago approached 50 miles) – simply put, it is a full-performance battery electric vehicle.
Once the battery is depleted, the Volt’s gas-powered engine engages to create the power needed to extend the range of the vehicle several hundred additional miles. In extended range mode the Volt is powered by either a 1-motor series or 2-motor combined mode. The vehicle will select the most efficient mode for the driving condition: 1-motor series – for operations almost exclusively below 30 mph; 2-motor combined almost exclusively above 70 mph. At speeds in between 30-70 mph, the Volt will select the most optimally efficient drive mode amongst the two.

The gear-heads among us, myself included, want to know exactly how the Volt works, and for that reason these details are important. In the big scheme of things, though, and to most consumers, it really doesn’t matter. The car will carry you for 40 miles without gas. That’s the promise.
After that it becomes a hybrid. It is actually the reverse of current hybrids like the Prius in that in the Volt the electric motor is the main player, and the gas engine is the minor assistant. In most of today’s hybrids the opposite is true. This allows the Volt to have the unmistakable feel of pure electric drive in all circumstances.

So while it does not operate exactly like a prius in that a prius uses the gas motor as the primary, and the Volt uses the Electric as the primary, it does use the gas motor to drive the wheels under certain conditions.