Building a SSCA T3 Car

[Natebrod]

I just purchased a 2010 SS with out engine and transmission from an auction and looking to build it into an SCCA race car out of it. This class is very specific on what you are allowed to use for suspension.

In T3 trim this car will have to run the LTT / LFX V6. I figure this is a good place to start since I'm on a budget and can always move up to T2 by replacing the V6 with a V8 and changing the rear gear.

Here are the allowed changes:
800lb max spring F&R.
SS front fascia, spoiler allowed.
1LE-SS Track Pack permitted part #23123398 .
Tower Brace 22756880, red.
TPR rear upper shock mount #22122,
Pfadt lower control arm reinforcement # 1410135,
Dry Sump kit # 009-92200,
Brake Kit SS (p/n 23120542) For 2011 cars adaptor kit p/n(23484878).

My question to you guys / gals are what spring rates y'all think I should run. This will be a racecar only and street ability is not needed. I will be running all of the options listed above available for the 2010.

[Lonewolf583]

Originally Posted by Natebrod

I just purchased a 2010 SS with out engine and transmission from an auction and looking to build it into an SCCA race car out of it. This class is very specific on what you are allowed to use for suspension.

In T3 trim this car will have to run the LTT / LFX V6. I figure this is a good place to start since I'm on a budget and can always move up to T2 by replacing the V6 with a V8 and changing the rear gear.

Here are the allowed changes:
800lb max spring F&R.
SS front fascia, spoiler allowed.
1LE-SS Track Pack permitted part #23123398 .
Tower Brace 22756880, red.
TPR rear upper shock mount #22122,
Pfadt lower control arm reinforcement # 1410135,
Dry Sump kit # 009-92200,
Brake Kit SS (p/n 23120542) For 2011 cars adaptor kit p/n(23484878).

My question to you guys / gals are what spring rates y'all think I should run. This will be a racecar only and street ability is not needed. I will be running all of the options listed above available for the 2010.

Sweet! Sounds like a cool project. Does the car have all the wiring for the V8 still? I'm not sure how involved that would be for an OE V8 to V6 swap solution. Might consider doing the LS3 from the get-go in T2 but I won't steer you away from it. Just saying long term you'll likely save money going straight to the V8.

On spring rates...first question is what dampers can you run? Are you ONLY limited to the 1LE kit?

Second is what mounting geometry changes can you make? I.E. can you do camber/caster modifications such as plates or are you bound to the factory adjustments?

Good luck!

[Natebrod]

All the wiring that I need will be from the engine harness to the engine CPU. The only other functions I'll need will be brake lights / head lights.

Modifications to the suspension are pretty limited. From the Rule book:

"A maximum of 3.0 degrees of negative chamber is
allowed on front and rear suspensions. Strut suspensions may de-camber wheels by the use of eccentric bushings, eccentric bolts (crash bolts) at the strut-to-spindle, and/or by use of slotted adjusters at the top of the strut mounting plate. If upper strut slotted plates are used, they shall belocated on existing chassis structure, utilizing the manu- facturer’s original bolt holes and may not serve as rein- forcement for that structure. On other forms of suspen- sion, camber adjustment may be achieved by the use of shims and/or eccentric bushings. Slotted ball joints on A-arms on double wishbone cars may be used for camber adjustment only.
b. Springs, Anti-Roll bar(s), and Shock Absorbers
1. Springs and anti-roll bar(s), shall remain as manufactured unless an alternate is listed on the vehicle specification line. Cars where air conditioning units have been removed shall refer additionally to Section D.3.b.1., above, for additional spring requirements. If alternate sway bar(s) are listed on the specification line, adjustable end links are allowed. The length of the link must be within 1” +/- length of stock. No modifications are allowed to the mounting point(s) other than to accomplish attachment of link. There may only be (1) rated spring per suspension corner. In addition to the main rated spring, there may be a “helper” spring on cars allowed a maximum spring rate on their spec line. Helper springs keep the main spring snug and feature a very soft rate, on the order of 10 lbs./in.
2. The make of shock absorber may be changed. Their number, perch location(s), system of attachment, and attachment points shall not be altered. Their type (tube vs. lever, etc.) shall not be altered. The interchange of gas and hydraulic shock absorbers is permitted.
T4 only: (unless specified on spec line) Any non-adjustable shock absorber is allowed. The shock must be installed in the original mounting locations. Remote shocks are not permitted. Threaded shock bodies or adjusters may be used.
a. The mounting hardware utilized shall be of the original type.
b. The use of any shock absorber bushing material is permitted. Note: the bushing attaching the end of the strut to the body or frame on a strut-type suspen- sion system is considered a suspension bushing, not a shock absorber bushing.
c. T2 only: minimum ride height is 3.75” inches. T3 and T4 only: minimum ride height is 4.5” inches.
Ride height to be measured without driver at the lowest point of the rocker panel, but not to include welded seams or fasteners.
d. T2-T4 only: Cars with alternate spring allowance in spec line, may use adaptors, and threaded perches to allow fitment of springs."

As for just building a T2 with a V8 instead of the T3 V6 car it just comes down to money really, I figure the T2 car will cost roughly $12k more than the T2. They allow more modifications like ZL1 brakes, Z/28 aero, and Z/28 suspension. Not to mention the cost of the V8 being 5k more. I want to really work on driving skill right now. Plus go out and dice it up with V8 mustangs and porche boxters!

[Lonewolf583]

Originally Posted by Natebrod

All the wiring that I need will be from the engine harness to the engine CPU. The only other functions I'll need will be brake lights / head lights.

You don't want ABS? After building a few race cars having all the right wiring to start from is underrated. But I get ya.

Modifications to the suspension are pretty limited. From the Rule book:

"A maximum of 3.0 degrees of negative chamber is
allowed on front and rear suspensions. Strut suspensions may de-camber wheels by the use of eccentric bushings, eccentric bolts (crash bolts) at the strut-to-spindle, and/or by use of slotted adjusters at the top of the strut mounting plate. If upper strut slotted plates are used, they shall belocated on existing chassis structure, utilizing the manu- facturer’s original bolt holes and may not serve as rein- forcement for that structure. On other forms of suspen- sion, camber adjustment may be achieved by the use of shims and/or eccentric bushings. Slotted ball joints on A-arms on double wishbone cars may be used for camber adjustment only.

Ok, cool, pretty standard stuff. I'd recommend pulling from the JPSS playbook here. Max out the caster, max SAI, adjust camber to your preference at the knuckle. I'm running -2.5 camber right now and I'm fairly satisfied. Will likely shoot for higher later.

b. Springs, Anti-Roll bar(s), and Shock Absorbers
1. Springs and anti-roll bar(s), shall remain as manufactured unless an alternate is listed on the vehicle specification line. Cars where air conditioning units have been removed shall refer additionally to Section D.3.b.1., above, for additional spring requirements. If alternate sway bar(s) are listed on the specification line, adjustable end links are allowed. The length of the link must be within 1” +/- length of stock. No modifications are allowed to the mounting point(s) other than to accomplish attachment of link. There may only be (1) rated spring per suspension corner. In addition to the main rated spring, there may be a “helper” spring on cars allowed a maximum spring rate on their spec line. Helper springs keep the main spring snug and feature a very soft rate, on the order of 10 lbs./in.

So to me this reads as you can't change springs outside the 1LE kit...and they're the same as what you already have to boot. I assume you're killing the A/C so what's the extra qualifier there?

2. The make of shock absorber may be changed. Their number, perch location(s), system of attachment, and attachment points shall not be altered. Their type (tube vs. lever, etc.) shall not be altered. The interchange of gas and hydraulic shock absorbers is permitted.

So I'd get clarity on this one here...assuming you have to stick with the SS/1LE springs...I'd work with Koni on this one. They've semi-recently released Koni yellows (single adjustable) which are in a stock style mounting package which will work with the springs. Their grassroots Motorsports division is top notch quality support. Give them all your information and they'll adjust the base valving to work with your setup, don't just buy off the shelf. In my fbody days I was never disappointed

T4 only: (unless specified on spec line) Any non-adjustable shock absorber is allowed. The shock must be installed in the original mounting locations. Remote shocks are not permitted. Threaded shock bodies or adjusters may be used.
a. The mounting hardware utilized shall be of the original type.
b. The use of any shock absorber bushing material is permitted. Note: the bushing attaching the end of the strut to the body or frame on a strut-type suspen- sion system is considered a suspension bushing, not a shock absorber bushing.
c. T2 only: minimum ride height is 3.75” inches. T3 and T4 only: minimum ride height is 4.5” inches.
Ride height to be measured without driver at the lowest point of the rocker panel, but not to include welded seams or fasteners.
d. T2-T4 only: Cars with alternate spring allowance in spec line, may use adaptors, and threaded perches to allow fitment of springs."

As for just building a T2 with a V8 instead of the T3 V6 car it just comes down to money really, I figure the T2 car will cost roughly $12k more than the T2. They allow more modifications like ZL1 brakes, Z/28 aero, and Z/28 suspension. Not to mention the cost of the V8 being 5k more. I want to really work on driving skill right now. Plus go out and dice it up with V8 mustangs and porche boxters!

I guess when I was referring to money, I was saying long term if you buy all the V6 stuff now, you're buying an engine twice and resale on a V6 that's been beat within an inch of its life will be minimal.

When does the gutting start?

[Spitfil2e]

I would tell you to talk with Justice Pete. He has helped me the most compared to any other vendor around. You tell him your goals and he helps you achieve them. He is very knowledgeable to the point that the GM engineers used his offsets and other stuff when they created the z/28 5th gen. I trust everything he says.

[Burt]

The make of shock absorber may be changed. Their number, perch location(s), system of attachment, and attachment points shall not be altered. Their type (tube vs. lever, etc.) shall not be altered. The interchange of gas and hydraulic shock absorbers is permitted.

That makes it sound like the yellows are out, since the spring mounts are adjustable and I don't think any of the positions match stock. Maybe get them to re-valve a set of oranges?

And if they're not going to let you change the strut mounting style but let you change the springs, the only solution I can come up with other than custom springs is to run Z/28 springs, which are about 300 lb/in front and 450 lb/in rear, and call Pete to figure out how to mount them. I'm running 450 lb/in front and 600 lb/in rear on my daily driver, but I don't know how you could even get close to that with a stock style spring.

[Natebrod]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf583

I guess when I was referring to money, I was saying long term if you buy all the V6 stuff now, you're buying an engine twice and resale on a V6 that's been beat within an inch of its life will be minimal.



When does the gutting start?

The car is enroute from Texas, I'm in California.
I'll be gutting it as soon as it gets here. I'm thinking next week sometime.

I hadn't really thought of abs because the other classes I have run didn't allow it. It looks like abs and traction control are both legal in this class. I'll have to do a bit of research to see what I can do about keeping them intact.

The spring rates can be changed up to 800lbs front and rear. The spring has to be stock style but can be a different rate.

[Lonewolf583]

Nice.

So, I think I'm a little confused by the ruleset bits. But nevertheless here's my .02.

If you are limited to the 1LE dampers, the safest w.r.t. rules and thus far most effective solution is the aforementioned Z28 lite setup (1LE damper, Z28 spring [RE:JPSS]).

Else, the rules might allow a creative solution. Again, pulling from my fbody days. We used to use weight jackers with springs meant for a roundy round car (grassroots oval stockcar). It would not be hard to source a spring the right diameter, height, and rate for next to nothing that would "work" with the stock perches. The springs we used were like 50-60 a piece and the weight jacker was about the same a corner and allowed us to corner balance. You might explore that option.

This being said if you don't upgrade to a Koni yellow the Z28 spring will likely be about the top end for what a 1LE damper can handle anyways...might be a moot point lol

[hcsi99]

Subscribed if this is the official build thread!

[Natebrod]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf583

Nice.

So, I think I'm a little confused by the ruleset bits. But nevertheless here's my .02.

If you are limited to the 1LE dampers, the safest w.r.t. rules and thus far most effective solution is the aforementioned Z28 lite setup (1LE damper, Z28 spring [RE:JPSS]).

Else, the rules might allow a creative solution. Again, pulling from my fbody days. We used to use weight jackers with springs meant for a roundy round car (grassroots oval stockcar). It would not be hard to source a spring the right diameter, height, and rate for next to nothing that would "work" with the stock perches. The springs we used were like 50-60 a piece and the weight jacker was about the same a corner and allowed us to corner balance. You might explore that option.

This being said if you don't upgrade to a Koni yellow the Z28 spring will likely be about the top end for what a 1LE damper can handle anyways...might be a moot point lol

Maybe I'm confused now too! I figured that I could get someone to make me some custom springs at a rate that would work best for my setup. The 1LE kit encompasses more than just the struts so that's why they call it out. They just also say that you can change the rates of the spring.

[Natebrod]

Originally Posted by Spitfil2e

I would tell you to talk with Justice Pete. He has helped me the most compared to any other vendor around. You tell him your goals and he helps you achieve them. He is very knowledgeable to the point that the GM engineers used his offsets and other stuff when they created the z/28 5th gen. I trust everything he says.

Justice Pete sounds like the guy I need to have a conversation with. Is there a recommended way I get in contact with him?

[Natebrod]

Originally Posted by hcsi99

Subscribed if this is the official build thread!

Ya I'll keep this up to date with build progress, just got to remember to take pics!

[nilfinite]

Originally Posted by Natebrod

Justice Pete sounds like the guy I need to have a conversation with. Is there a recommended way I get in contact with him?

Pete is knows everything Camaro. I ask him tons of questions on my SCCA autocross street class setup and he always has an answer.

Website: http://www.jpssonline.com/
Office: (276)-644-0100

[Spitfil2e]

Originally Posted by Natebrod

Justice Pete sounds like the guy I need to have a conversation with. Is there a recommended way I get in contact with him?

http://www.jpssonline.com/ <--- This is his website you can get his contact info from there. Also I would suggest reading his book on the 5 gen. I know right this min he is up at the 50th Camaro thing in Lansing. You could call the shop and see if they would give you his cell phone.

But he is the man if you tell him what you want he will make it happen!!!