Cash for clunkers program Dangerous????

Supermans · 08-01-2009, 03:19 AM

It appears the process for killing the engines is very dangerous to even do yet all dealers must do this in order to get their money from the Government back. Dealers are rushing the engine killing process where they have to put on hazmat-like suits to accomplish...Just crazy if you ask me.. They are rushing because of fear the gov. will run out of money yet again..YIKES...Interesting to say the least..

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/200...rs-crushed/?hp

We spent a couple of days earlier this week following the whole complex program, from dealer to scrap heap, and found twists and turns in it that are making it a nightmare now for everyone involved.

The program requires that the clunkers be put out of service for good, so dealers must destroy the engines on cars that are traded in. We watched this process yesterday at the DCH Paramus Honda in Paramus, N.J. It is quite laborious and potentially dangerous. And it certainly is final.

Nick Clites, who is in charge of used cars for the dealership, was prepping a 1988 BMW 535IS, with 214,000 miles on the odometer, for its death. He drained the oil, then donned a silky blue protective suit, goggles and gloves and poured a sodium silicate solution into the engine. He revved the car, and within a few seconds, the solution hardened into a glass-like substance, the engine seized up and the car was dead.

So here is one question: With the program now on shaky ground, even with a new infusion of money, what consumer and what dealer will risk rendering an engine irretrievably unusable?
Well, as it turns out, a lot of them are doing so, because unless the dealers can prove to the government that they have killed the engines and scrapped the cars, the government will not reimburse them for the $3,500 or $4,500 discount that they have given the customer on a new, more efficient vehicle.

Barry Magnus, the general manager of DCH Paramus Honda, told us he was owed more than $80,000, and he wondered if he would ever see it. The government has said it would take 10 days to reimburse the dealers, but that was before the program apparently ran out of money and devolved into chaos Thursday night.

------------------------------------------

And yet this is another thing dealers are doing here in Miami.. What a bunch of sleazeballs if you ask me...

Mr. Kurkin, the lawyer in Miami, said that many dealers are attaching clauses to their sales agreements, saying that if the government money does not come through, the customer will have to make up the difference.

mikriman · 08-01-2009, 07:22 AM

WOW ------Good info, Good to know.

Supermans · 08-01-2009, 07:40 AM

Perhaps this part below should get its own thread as well but it is also in the article above..

Mr. Kurkin, the lawyer in Miami, said that many dealers are attaching clauses to their sales agreements, saying that if the government money does not come through, the customer will have to make up the difference.

I do believe the best tip I've heard for the Cash for Clunkers program is to not mention it to your dealer until after you have negotiated everything and have it agreed upon.. Then mention you have a car you checked out to get an additional amount off. But this clause which forces the customer to pay up if the Govt. doesn't seems so wrong to me. It should be illegal to do force such a clause in a vehicle purchase..

Vash · 08-01-2009, 01:19 PM

It's not dangerous. They work with cars and chemicals every day.

For years I came home with grease under my nails and had to wash with go-jo and lava
several times. My jeans and shirts would get holes from battery acid. This comes with the turf of MX.

Supermans · 08-01-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vash

It's not dangerous. They work with cars and chemicals every day.

For years I came home with grease under my nails and had to wash with go-jo and lava
several times. My jeans and shirts would get holes from battery acid. This comes with the turf of MX.

The danger comes from rushing to do this and not following all safety procedures. The dealerships described in this article are rushing because of the fear the money will run out once more..etc..and they have to do this procedure to get the money. Also, they have to wear body suits when dealing with this dangerous chemical...How many do you think will even use all safety equipment every time if they are in a hurry?

As for Sodium silicate, I looked it up and know why it is dangerous... It is considered by many to be a neurotoxin. Something that slowly can hurt you if exposed...

Vash · 08-01-2009, 06:13 PM

Man at a shop or parts store half the stuff there will kill you if you ingest it. Wrenching has these risks. Comes with the career turf. If you don't want chems then you ride a desk and with a tie and a pocket protector.

Justin · 08-01-2009, 07:24 PM

Every single time I hear about this program I can't help but be a little bit sad to see them killing off cars that sometimes aren't clunkers. I'm sure a few fbods have seen their death this way. :-(.

Parker · 08-01-2009, 07:26 PM

Its not that bad of a chemical, its only a 1 in the health square and 0 for the others. So it's only slightly hazardous. Batteries are about 3 in all the squares. Also it only takes 20-30 minutes to complete the process. it largely depends on how good of a motor it was.

Blownhotrodder · 08-01-2009, 07:54 PM

Such a sad ending to years of serving its owner.

SleepWarz · 08-01-2009, 09:08 PM

I wonder how much smoke and other shit this program is pumping into the atmosphere...
I cant believe someone was stupid enough to let this go through, you know all people are going to do is destroy some car. I hope somebody eats a connecting rod while doing this.
Retarded program.

69 Hugger · 08-02-2009, 10:02 PM

This is cash for clunkers, Check out this

*DGthe3* · 08-04-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepWarz

I wonder how much smoke and other shit this program is pumping into the atmosphere...
I cant believe someone was stupid enough to let this go through, you know all people are going to do is destroy some car. I hope somebody eats a connecting rod while doing this.
Retarded program.

its not in Canada anyway, and the fires out in BC right now (hope everyone you know is safe out there) are a lot worse for the air than C4C is. At any rate, the idea of the program is to get (efficient) cars moving off lots. And in that regard, its pretty much a complete success based on what dealers have been saying.

Anyways, I don't agree with the idea of destroying the engines, or even the way that they do it. If you want to take the cars off the road, prohibit that VIN from ever being registered again. I'm sure that would meet the needs of the program. Leave the engine alone, it could be used to keep another old car running. But if they must destroy the engine, why to they have to replace the fluids with something else? Drain the fluids, turn the engine on and eventually it will destroy itself. Why introduce another substance into the mix?

brandotron · 08-04-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69 Hugger

This is cash for clunkers, Check out this

http://www.snopes.com/computer/internet/clunkers.asp
Glenn Beck is not real news.

MrIcky · 08-04-2009, 05:54 PM

Cash for Clunkers is a large part of why Ford and Chevy finally had a good month last month.

It's probably the first thing that the Gov't has done from a financial stimulus point of view that has actually stimulated any finances.

It's a little sad on some vehicles I guess, but I wish they would have done this instead of some of the other half baked stimuli they attempted in January.

08-01-2009, 03:19 AM	#1
Supermans Camaro & Stang Enthusiast Drives: 2011 Mustang 5.0 in Kona Blue Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 4,729 View My Garage	Cash for clunkers program Dangerous???? It appears the process for killing the engines is very dangerous to even do yet all dealers must do this in order to get their money from the Government back. Dealers are rushing the engine killing process where they have to put on hazmat-like suits to accomplish...Just crazy if you ask me.. They are rushing because of fear the gov. will run out of money yet again..YIKES...Interesting to say the least.. http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/200...rs-crushed/?hp We spent a couple of days earlier this week following the whole complex program, from dealer to scrap heap, and found twists and turns in it that are making it a nightmare now for everyone involved. The program requires that the clunkers be put out of service for good, so dealers must destroy the engines on cars that are traded in. We watched this process yesterday at the DCH Paramus Honda in Paramus, N.J. It is quite laborious and potentially dangerous. And it certainly is final. Nick Clites, who is in charge of used cars for the dealership, was prepping a 1988 BMW 535IS, with 214,000 miles on the odometer, for its death. He drained the oil, then donned a silky blue protective suit, goggles and gloves and poured a sodium silicate solution into the engine. He revved the car, and within a few seconds, the solution hardened into a glass-like substance, the engine seized up and the car was dead. So here is one question: With the program now on shaky ground, even with a new infusion of money, what consumer and what dealer will risk rendering an engine irretrievably unusable? Well, as it turns out, a lot of them are doing so, because unless the dealers can prove to the government that they have killed the engines and scrapped the cars, the government will not reimburse them for the $3,500 or $4,500 discount that they have given the customer on a new, more efficient vehicle. Barry Magnus, the general manager of DCH Paramus Honda, told us he was owed more than $80,000, and he wondered if he would ever see it. The government has said it would take 10 days to reimburse the dealers, but that was before the program apparently ran out of money and devolved into chaos Thursday night. ------------------------------------------ And yet this is another thing dealers are doing here in Miami.. What a bunch of sleazeballs if you ask me... Mr. Kurkin, the lawyer in Miami, said that many dealers are attaching clauses to their sales agreements, saying that if the government money does not come through, the customer will have to make up the difference. __________________ Bought my Camaro from Eric Hall(817) 421-7266

08-01-2009, 07:40 AM	#3
Supermans Camaro & Stang Enthusiast Drives: 2011 Mustang 5.0 in Kona Blue Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 4,729 View My Garage	Perhaps this part below should get its own thread as well but it is also in the article above.. Mr. Kurkin, the lawyer in Miami, said that many dealers are attaching clauses to their sales agreements, saying that if the government money does not come through, the customer will have to make up the difference. I do believe the best tip I've heard for the Cash for Clunkers program is to not mention it to your dealer until after you have negotiated everything and have it agreed upon.. Then mention you have a car you checked out to get an additional amount off. But this clause which forces the customer to pay up if the Govt. doesn't seems so wrong to me. It should be illegal to do force such a clause in a vehicle purchase.. __________________ Bought my Camaro from Eric Hall(817) 421-7266

08-01-2009, 06:13 PM	#6
Vash Drives: 00 Blazer Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 5,100	Man at a shop or parts store half the stuff there will kill you if you ingest it. Wrenching has these risks. Comes with the career turf. If you don't want chems then you ride a desk and with a tie and a pocket protector. Last edited by Vash; 08-01-2009 at 08:55 PM.

08-01-2009, 07:24 PM	#7
Justin Camaro5's Cell Phone Geek Drives: '02 V6 Camaro. 5 speed manual. Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 406	Every single time I hear about this program I can't help but be a little bit sad to see them killing off cars that sometimes aren't clunkers. I'm sure a few fbods have seen their death this way. :-(. __________________ 2SS RJT with black rally stripes, RS package, sunroof, painted engine block cover. It's either that or a damned similar 'vert in a few years.

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08-01-2009, 07:22 AM	#2
mikriman Drives: 2010 Chevy Camaro Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 46 View My Garage	WOW ------Good info, Good to know.

08-01-2009, 01:19 PM	#4
Vash Drives: 00 Blazer Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 5,100	It's not dangerous. They work with cars and chemicals every day. For years I came home with grease under my nails and had to wash with go-jo and lava several times. My jeans and shirts would get holes from battery acid. This comes with the turf of MX.

08-01-2009, 07:26 PM	#8
Parker Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 246 View My Garage	Its not that bad of a chemical, its only a 1 in the health square and 0 for the others. So it's only slightly hazardous. Batteries are about 3 in all the squares. Also it only takes 20-30 minutes to complete the process. it largely depends on how good of a motor it was.

08-01-2009, 07:54 PM	#9
Blownhotrodder Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Clarkesville , GEORGIA Posts: 1,857	Such a sad ending to years of serving its owner.

08-01-2009, 09:08 PM	#10
SleepWarz Banned Drives: 1991 New Yorker, 69 Tbird, ABM2SSRS Join Date: May 2009 Location: BC Canada Posts: 2,248 View My Garage	I wonder how much smoke and other shit this program is pumping into the atmosphere... I cant believe someone was stupid enough to let this go through, you know all people are going to do is destroy some car. I hope somebody eats a connecting rod while doing this. Retarded program.

08-04-2009, 05:54 PM	#14
MrIcky Drives: Dodge Ram Megacab & Cobalt SS Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Boise Posts: 1,536	Cash for Clunkers is a large part of why Ford and Chevy finally had a good month last month. It's probably the first thing that the Gov't has done from a financial stimulus point of view that has actually stimulated any finances. It's a little sad on some vehicles I guess, but I wish they would have done this instead of some of the other half baked stimuli they attempted in January.