Quote:
Originally Posted by 2013 ZL1 #7860
As a general rule, pistol rounds are under powered regardless of caliber.
The discussion was about .380 (generally the weakest pistol round professionals advise for self defense) and then using frangible bullets (generally used in urban environments by PD, SWAT, Military to avoid any possible chance of injuring innocent people at the expense of ballistics or used to breach).
The last time our local PD used frangibles was in a hostage situation in an apartment with a knife. The lead officer was carrying a ballistic shield and a .357mag with frangibles. He was backed up by officers with .556. The perp was not stopped sufficiently by the frangibles and it was a rifle that took him down. My father-in-law (officer for over 30 years) was one of the first to respond and saw it first hand.
I would not trust a frangible pistol round to stop an attack when the use of a 8-12" penetrating and 140% expanding hollow point round out of the same pistol is considered "marginal" at best.
People are made of bones, varying densities of flesh and muscle, usually have more than 1 layer of clothing and also have large hollow cavities which cause havoc to bullet trajectories.
There are 2 types of bullet wound cavities. Permanent and Temporary. The permanent cavity may be impressive with frangible (although shallow which is by design) however there is nearly no temporary cavity as compared to hollowpoint. The temporary cavity delivers the shock to the attacker and their organs and nervous system. (The temporary cavity literally expands the attacker's flesh inside them causing huge shock and a large energy dump. The temporary cavities of many high caliber rifle rounds are larger than a man's chest while many pistol rounds are the size of a football). Either round will likely be fatal in the end, but I'd rather have the round that gives the better chance of stopping the attack sooner and with more punch delivered.
The only real solution and the best thing you can do is constantly train. Shot placement is crucial regardless of the caliber or bullet type. With good shot placement the chances of over-penetrating with a good Hollowpoint are greatly reduced.
Concealed carry is about personal defense, it has nothing to do with being a hero or being "on duty" and there are no magic bullets.
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Interesting experience, that's a compelling enough testimony for me. I had not heard that before. Called a cop buddy of mine and asked him about what he thought of them after reading your posting. He surprisingly said the same thing as you, just not as tactful as you are, he had more direct language. I'll be doing some more investigation, thank you for your explanation.
As for being able to place a shot accurately. From my own personal experience with adrenalin. Even the best shooters have difficulty hitting at what their aiming at when suddenly defending themselves with their own life at jeopardy. I use laser grips for my 226, that's the one I carry, not the 380.
Nine times out of ten the aggressor in the situation is usually the only one that will hit what he is shooting at, the victims or first responders are typically the ones that cant hit the truck in front of them.