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Old 12-05-2013, 08:23 PM   #44
DGthe3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trademaster View Post
True enough on some points, but on turbo lag I disagree. The lag of years past is almost non-existent now. Engines comparable to the twin-scroll turbo DI 2.3 coming to Mustang routinely see peak torque before 3,000rpm which is way earlier than the v6 will see peak torque. As far as cost, well you are getting higher output. If that's not worth the cost to you the point is irrelevant anyway.
No matter how good the system is, turbo lag will still be present. Its less than it used to be but you can't fight the basic mechanics of how turbocharging works. Its based off of a feedback loop: exhaust drives turbine to draw more air, which creates more exhaust which drives the turbine even harder. Clever little system, but it takes time. No amount of light-weighting the turbo, using super bearings, or using the the turbo as the exhaust manifold will eliminate that cycle time. The only way to completely eliminate it would be to have an externally driven turbo that feeds directly into the intake (or replaces the intake itself) whose air output is tied to the engine RPM. Such devices exists, we usually call them 'super chargers'

It was somebody else talking about power bands

Cost ... well, if it isn't a better engine overall I don't see any justification for a higher pricetag. We'll see what the numbers are in a few months. But I'm going to guess that the 'combined output' of hp+torque will be about the same between the V6 and T4. And if the price of fueling them is the same too (with any fuel economy benefit negated by recomending premium or at least midgrade) I don't see any real value being added. I understand the added cost ... but if it doesn't do anything for me, its not worth anything to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trademaster View Post

Again I'll have to disagree here. To get a v6 to v8 power levels you will need forced induction (assuming we exclude nitrous). It's much easier to swap turbos, change exhaust, tune and add fuel than it is to add forced induction to a car that is N/A from the factory. Look how hard it is for the v6 Camaro guys to make 400whp then compare that to a Mitsu Evo or one of the Subarus, even a turbo cobalt. If you're talking about some really high numbers sure displacement might become more significant. Even then, a built I4 will cost you less than a built v6 and there's no shortage of 500+whp turbo 4s. Other than that mod for mod and $ for $ the turbo cars are going to wreak havoc on the v6 cars.
The engines in Evo's and STi's are slightly different beasts than the Ecoboasts. If past history is anything to go by, the 2.3 will be 'strengthened' but not fully forged. And I wouldn't trust an engine producing 200 hp/L with hyper-eut pistons.

Of course, the V6 will also eventually reach a point where its going to need to be built to support FI too. And after it hits it, there will probably be a bit of a window where its cheaper to hit XYZ hp with a turbo 4. But after that .... hold on, this is just getting ridiculous. If there is anyone out there that wants to make a 600 hp+ Mustang 'the hard way' (without a V8) ... chances are, they don't really care how much it costs to do so.
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My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
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