[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by IH8OPEC

A $1.05 a round is ridiculous considering the price this time last year it was $0.39 a round or less! That's one hell of a mark up thanks to the gov ordering far more ammo than they can possibly use for departments that do not carry weapons, for an example, over 450 million hollow point rounds of just one caliber were ordered for the DHS/TSA! Why?

They may not be able to ban weapons but they can sure as hell make ammo either hard to find or far too expensive to buy for normal people achieving almost the same effect as a ban. I say stock up on components like primers, bullets and powder and save your brass when you go to the range you may not be able to find it readily available in the near future.

Originally Posted by kalimus

/tinfoil hat

DHS/TSA covers border patrol, secret service, CIA, FBI, TSA (air marshals, etc), and basically every single federal agency that is not the military. I've heard time and again that it's "more round than they could possibly use". That's not true. The government orders things like this in MASSIVE bulk to get a bulk buy discount we couldn't even dream of. This order does not go in once a year, but rather is a contract for several years (I believe 5).

Think about those times you go shooting, and how easy it is to plink through 100 rounds. What does it take you... 30 minutes maybe?

These departments need to train also. DHS employs more than 200 thousand federal workers, not to mention its contracted ones. Do the math:

Lets just pretend that all 200k use guns, and that none of the contracted ones do. 200k people. 450 million rounds. 5 years.

That's only 450 rounds per year, per individual. Do you really think that's excessive? I used to buy 500 rounds a month or more.

The inflation of prices is because of panic buyers, and panic buyers only. Supply and demand. Nothing more, nothing less. People are scared they will lose all of their rights overnight, and are stockpiling everything they can get their hands on. It happened in 2008 (not as bad), and they weren't even trying to pass the massive gun legislation they are now.

Originally Posted by IH8OPEC

I threw the tinfoil hat away!

I cannot find any historical data right now but I don't think the government has made such a large purchase of hollow point ammo ever! I think the total of all ammo ordered (all calibers) for non military use is 1.2 billion rounds not just the 450 million rounds of .40 cal hollow points I referred to above. Are they really training with hollow points? I think not, they're running the prices up by keeping supply down. That's all I was saying.

Originally Posted by kalimus

I highly doubt that's the case. Hollow points are shown to be the most effective personal defense ammo while cutting down on possible collateral damage. And that order went in pre-Newtown. And even if it was the case, how does one explain the lack of .223, 9mm, .45acp, and various other ammo? If it was really the case, the only thing that would be hard to find is .40 hollow points. Ironically enough, the only thing I seem to find a LOT of is .40 FMJ (and 7.62/.308). It's panic buyers. It's the same ammo shortage as in 2008, just a longer duration. Same rounds hard to find. Same lack of magazines and firearms. Same price gouging. And that was done WITHOUT the DHS purchase. People are sheep.

I doubt they train with hollow points, but anybody that shoots knows it's important to train with the same round you use. FMJ and HP don't shoot the same. But, I also don't have any data on just how many people 450 million rounds is supposed to supply for 5 years. You also have to remember, that DHS has expanded at a huge rate in the last 10 years. It's very possible that an order that large was never made because there were not as many people to supply.

And I wouldn't throw your tinfoil hat away if I were you. I keep mine on the nightstand next to the bed.

Let's see.In basic training alone there were 40 people in my class shooting between 150 to 300 everyday for about 2 and a half months. about 8 classes going at once in my agency alone, not including the 4 other LE agencies in dhs. Plus quarterly qualifications for all the already existing employees.

Yes, we practice with what we shoot. Yes, we shoot a lot. Yes, you are welcome. Yes, you can take off your tinfoil hat.