Quote:
Originally Posted by MrIcky
OK, I personally think that in the absolute best tradition of American Freedom- it's Tran et al's board and if he wants to limit political discussion- Fine by me. There are many boards where you can debate your left vs right til your blue in the face. I haven't found the most recent moderation attempts to be to onerus- keep it honest, keep it factual and I haven't been censored yet.
But I want to make some points that just piss me off on the 'doomsday scenarios'. I'm by nature very optimistic, but there has been complete head in the clouds unreality in calling people doomsday chicken little naysayers.
Here is the progression of some of the overly optimistic people who have been cheered on this board. It's almost like the stages of grief here..
* GM wants money from the Govt. Everyone on the boards needs to support that because GM has a plan! Posts are put up about what we can do to help GM. People who question that are internet bullied.
* Some people said that doesn't sound right, can we see this plan? The response from prominent people on this board was no way- they don't need to show it to you, you need to keep your plans secret because of competition! Turns out they didn't have a plan that could prevent bankruptcy.
* GM wants even more money month after month even though it was apparent 3 months ago that bankruptcy was MORE than 50/50 odds. "GM won't file bankruptcy, quit spouting off with the Chicken Little crap" was the response.
* The Government is going to CONTROL the majority of GM's stocks via either bankruptcy or assistance. "No they're not- they don't want to control GM. The current administration has said he doesn't want to take part in the day to day management" was the response. Maybe they don't want to take place in the day to day management, but it's pretty clear they want to decide GM's direction at this point.
* Bankruptcies ALWAYS take time, now people are thinking that this is going to happen over a weekend or something with no shutdowns. Do you want to side with the optimists or the realists on that bet? (edit:some of these people are same people who were saying a bankruptcy would never happen, and we should just give money to GM no questions asked)
Maybe I didn't make my point well; I'll clarify it just in case. Since January, there has been call after call to not post negative opinions on the direction of GM. It's been labeled as "panicky" and "sky is falling" every time someone looks at the train wreck and calls it a train wreck instead of calling it a butterfly. Well here we are 4 days from June and the tally is: $ was thrown at a bankrupt company that had no plan, but now has a new plan in the last week to give 74% control to the Government and 17% control to the Unions to survive. I hate to say it- this bankruptcy does not appear to be a 'makes you stronger-lean and mean!' bankruptcy. It actually appears from a distance that Chrysler's bankruptcy is much better planned. GM's bankruptcy's is more of a 'it makes your company much much smaller while increasing bureaucracy' sort of bankruptcy.
I've had it up to my eyebrows with people blindly defending GM and their direction based on 'lets not have panic posts'. And you can look at my posts, I haven't been panicky. I'm still not panicky- I'm realistic and I'm not about to call this train wreck a butterfly.
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Good post.. Right vs Left is too simple a way to frame the debates over what to support and how to support it. To me it is as simple as limiting Government (Conservative) vs. expanding Government (Progressive Liberal). At this point in time we are witnessing the largest expansion of Government since FDR's new deal and General Motors is the largest government takeover of a private company in the large history of our country. Planned or not, this is going to happen and just because there is little we can do to stop it doesn't mean we wave the white flag and do nothing about it.. yes this forum is owned, paid for, and run by Tran and I have respected his decisions so far when he's made them. That is why I am trying to show him by means of this thread that some political discussion can occur without fighting and is healthier than shutting it down continuously. You can say it was tried before however it wasn't implemented in the best manner in order for it to be controllable and easily moderated. It would be easy to control if like I said above, you limit who can participate by having a minimum of 500 posts to be able to post, and if you misbehave you get banned from that section for some time until you learn how to debate without name-calling or attacking anyone directly on this forum. That would include Barack Obama if he decides to join this forum and debate any member himself. Next week, Obama would be CEO of the company. We'll be hearing what his vision of General Motors will be in the coming weeks on top of what we already have heard him say about the MPG average or per car..