[radz28]

Originally Posted by Silver Streak

I do believe that another concern with e85 is the coal generators used to produce the E85. Kind of defeats the purpose. Using the same technology to produce a new technology.

Originally Posted by MrIcky

This is a double edged sword:

Making fuel more expensive will have side effects of increasing research on alternative fuels and decreasing driving.

However, it will also be a huge drag to the economy. The common conversation is that the current mess we're in is due to the housing bubble- however it's often forgotten that what popped that bubble was a spike in fuel prices. All the talking heads said that $4.00/gal gas was just the beginning (personally, I have some black helicopter theories here, but everything before the paranthesis is not theory-it's fact).

Well designed legislation with both carrots and sticks would incentivise private industry to create more fuel efficient solutions. Reworking cafe could actually be a growth industry for the US. The US is actually ahead of the curve on energy research but way behind the curve on implementation. Alot of this is due to poorly designed reactionary regulation.

Also, if we unilateraly increase fuel tax, we only impede what little competitive advantage we have left.

The fact of the matter is that oil is finite. There's debate on how finite, but there is no debate that it is finite. Oil prices will naturally trend up on an ever-sharpening curve as we get closer to that end point. As oil prices go up around the world, the whole world will get involved in alternatives (and Ethanol that uses cropland is not sustainable as a major fuel source either).

Therefore, I suggest minimal artificial means of increasing fuel costs. Strong incentives to increase fuel economy, mainly in terms of providing tax breaks for companies that make goals and investment in research to alternatives. Then let economics take care of itself as new technologies are produced that can provide sufficient fuel in large scales.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

There's two sides to that argument. Both are plenty strong, and both have valid points -- so the jury's out. E85 from corn can raise food prices...but maybe not as outrageously high as some project.

Other opposition to corn-based ethanol is that it takes more energy to produce than it releases. This of course, depends on the scale at which the stuff is made, and the procedure, etc...But for the most part, this accusation is false...though only by a small margin. E85 can produce ~1.1 units of energy for every 1 unit spent to make it. Similar to gasoline.

There's a similar argument regarding water. It takes some 3 gallons of water to make one gallon of ethanol from corn. Quite the waste.

Notice that all these arguments are only valid when talking about ethanol from CORN. That will not be the major source for much longer. Cellulosic Ethanol is catching on in a big way. This is ethanol made from broken-down plant matter, and not directly from the sugars from the corn curnels. The energy yield for this type is 7:1 (7 units are produced for every one used to make it). Some procedures require LESS than ONE gallon to make. And none of it is from food-crops.

The good part is that the ethanol, in the end, is all the same, either from corn, or cellulosic. And within the decade, Algae will become a big player...this alone has the potential to replace the nations entire oil usage...

HELLO! I need to stop listening to the radio and watching TV! Thanks guys for the information. I keep forgetting about the algea and the plant matter. It sounds like there are more alternatives to produce E85 than just the corn; I don't recall ever knowing/understanding that. In that case - I'm all for E85!