Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivas
While you are at it, Old Sage, would you please enlighten us as to what was meant, back in the early 1970's, by detergent oil. I had some really old cars from the 40's and early 50's back then, and we young bucks were always counseled by our elder mechanics NOT to put detergent oil in our old engines.
What was the real story? Enquiring minds wanna' know.
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lol...Old Sage...Didn't know one could be considered a Sage at 27. I just work in the industry and have access to data and information that the common consumer does not.
But the reason there is no fully synthetic oils anymore is because years ago (Before Exxon and Mobil merged) Mobil brought a lawsuit against Castrol for their branding of their oil technology "syntec" as synthetic. Exxon, at the time, backed Castrol because they were formulating their own oil similar to Castrol. Both of these oils were getting killed on the market by Mobil 1 since it was a true synthetic PAO (Poly Aromatic Olefin) blend. Long story short that since Castrols oil (which used Base III/IV basestocks) received further refining beyond normal basestock oils, and because their testing showed it performed almost to the same levels as Mobil 1, the courts ruled that "if they're essentially the same, whats the big deal?" and allowed Castrol to market its oil as synthetic.
The bean counters and engineers behind the formulations realized if there was no need to go through the process of formulating a fully snythetic PAO blend, they could just take the PAO amounts that get produced in a normal refining process and blend it with other base stocks and then sell it as a synthetic as the precedent was now set. Profit margin on the oil is now even bigger with no added cost.
Fast forward several years, Exxon and Mobil merge, form ExxonMobil and continue the path.
As an aside, if you want prove, check out the European markets, especially Germany. There, in order to be marketed and sold as a synthetic the oil must be completely based in non-blended PAO basestock. And since there's no money in it, its not really done. Castrol and Mobil 1 are not sold as Synthetics there.
As for detergent oils, virtually all, ALL, modern oils are "Detergent oils". Non-detergent oils were oils with no additives. Detergent oils help by suspending soot and particles left from oil degradation in the oil. This is why, as evidenced by the above pictures, synthetic engine oils look basically brand new on tear down.
Now the synthetic oils PAO content help improve those processes even more. It also comes down to additive blends. Mobil 1 has some of the best blends in the industry. Its one thing their formula generators know its their oil testing. In addition they have some of the best engine testing laboratories in the industry and take their market position and reputation very seriously.
The reason you're old school mechanics suggested you not use "detergent oils" in very old engines is, as I already stated, old school engines weren't (in my opinion) produced to such tight tolerances as modern engines and were not produced with the same precision. In these cases, the gunk and soot formed from the degradation of traditional base stock oils actually helped to seal the engines. Basically acting like a coloidal (read suspension type gel) gasket for the engine. Once you introduced a "detergent" oil to these types of engines (even well into the 70s), the soot and gunk would dissolve back into the oil, thus "unsealing" the engine and causing leaks. This wasn't a flaw of the oil, it was a flaw in the engine design/construction.
However, I will state that I do not know what types of oils people use in those very few and rare original equipment antiques and classics out there. However, I will say if there are still specialty tire makers (for all those white wall lovers out there), I'm sure there is someone that makes an engine oil tailored to those types of cars.