[Number 3]

Originally Posted by DevilKnightFalcon

http://jalopnik.com/5661051/how-gm-l...e-electric-car

http://jalopnik.com/5661817/chevy-vo...and-statistics

I would like to believe that the Volt is technically superior however the bottom line is it is still just a hybrid and if these early rumors and reports are true that the car is only getting around 40mpg in the city then it is not even a very good hybrid. With that said I am waiting on official reviews before making final judgement but honestly if this car gets anything less than 80mpg I will be quite disappointed given all the hype (and claimed 230mpg)

First everyone is simply forgetting about the MISSION. The Volt was intended to be an Electric Vehicle that had the abilty to eliminate the single biggest concern (and justifiably so) for most potential EV customers, RANGE ANXIETY. That was the MISSION. Not to be an EV, not to be a Hybrid.

So in ICE mode, it is not optimized for FE. It's an 85 HP engine. It is efficient or what it does, but as it DOES NOT PROVIDE PRIMARY PROPULSION (sorry that was for clarity not yelling) it is barely as efficient as a much lighter Cruze with the same engine with a Turbo.

Originally Posted by derklug

The Volt was originally called a plug-in hybrid, which is probably how the engineers talked about it, but then the marketing department got ahold of it and it became an EV. Now the writers are screaming because GM did something logical to aid performance but, in effect, making the car not a true EV. I agree that the parsing of words is designed more to rain on the Volt's parade and give Nissan ammo for selling it's glorified golf cart.

Not sure what early meetings you were in, but it was always something more......either EREV or REEV in the early going.

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Exactly. Some are now drawing comparisons between this and the Prius PHEV, and if GM had announced details about the Volt's drivetrain prior to it being patented, Toyota could've slipped a little something extra into the Prius PHEV to make it perform just as well as the Volt.

The simple answer is even the Prius PHEV can NOT due what the Volt does. A PHEV is simply a Hybrid with a bigger battery and an on board charger. It has increased capacity for speed, grade, acceleration and load compared to the normal hybrid. But it simply doesn't have the battery to go 70 mph or accelerate WOT without the ICE. The Volt can do all of these things as for the first 40 miles it is a full functioning EV.

Originally Posted by a_Username

This really depends on how you define a hybrid. If you call a hybrid a vehicle that is powered, rather directly or indirectly, by two different sources (gas/electric) then the Volt is a hybrid. However, if you believe there must be a direct link between the gasoline engine (without the middleman that the generator is) and the wheels then this is an EV.

I for one do not feel like I've been lied to at all. To me, GM simply added a hybrid "safeguard" to guarantee capability and efficiency. IMO, I'd rather have this safeguard than the pride of knowing I have an EV, defined by very broad criteria I might add, while I'm stranded on the side of the road.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

There are 2 there are two types of hybrid, series and parallel. If you can run gas only, electric only, or gas and electric you have a parallel hybrid. If you can run electric only, but use the gas engine to power the electric motors, its a series hybrid. Neither system has a maximum or minumum limit on electric only range before using the gas engine. Some parallel hybrids don't have an extra battery, they just use the regular battery under the hood. Meanwhile there are series hybrids that don't have a battery either, the limited storage requirements are taken care of with capacitors. At the other end of the spectrum, you have the plug in Prius and the Volt which can each go for miles and miles electrically, but in theory may never need gasoline. But its still a hybrid drivetrain.

The Volt is a hybrid. Supposedly, it was to be a series hybrid but it looks like it has a parallel capability too. Either way, its a hybrid and not an EV.

You and I had this discussion before. When the battery is depleted (30% I think) it is a Hybrid. With a fully charged battery it is an EV. The customer can choose to make it an EV and still have a fully functional vehicle up to 101 mph. A hybrid simply can't do that. Not near enough battery.

Originally Posted by a_Username

If your definitions are correct, then why did GM call it an EV? But I would like to question that definition of a parallel hybrid. The way you worded it seems as if a car could be gasoline only, i.e. with no other power source besides gasoline, and still be called a parallel hybrid by that definition; this is unless this definition counts the addition of a simple battery found in every car as the other power source.

As I said, it's an EV if your battery has 30% charge left. When it doesn't it operates as a Hybrid.

Originally Posted by Hylton

You sound like you are fine with the ambiguity. Can we not be a tad more honest than Toyota? That's what we are really talking about, not how much better the Volt is with every other Hybrid out there - you're not going to find anyone disagreeing with that point.

If the Volt was a true EV then I should be able to move the "generator" to the trunk, run longer wires to all the original connections and it should work exactly as it does now. Something tells me I can't do that and expect the same performance when traveling over 70 mph.

Actually you can. Don't ask me how I know but, you can simply remove the engine and plug the vehicle in and suffer range anxiety like the leaf owners will. But I believe the Leaf is carrying a bigger battery and is smaller and lighter enabling the 100 mile claim. But back to the mission, the ICE is what enables the customer to overcome that.

Originally Posted by Hylton

A parallel hybrid is a vehicle which will feed the transmission from the electrical source AND the gasoline source at the same time. The Volt does this at 70 mph.

A series hybrid is when the gasoline engine (generator) must send it's energy through the electrical system to get to the transmission.

When you are in Charge Sustaining mode. Otherwise the engine isn't on at 70 mph. Or the customer can select "Mountain Mode" to accomplish the same thing on the worst grade in North America. But even then the customer has to choose that. If they want to remain an EV they can climb the grade at the legal minimum speed.

Originally Posted by a_Username

You give a much better and much more workable definition. Given these definitions...

It acts as an EV until it hits 70, where it responds by acting as a parallel hybrid. It seems to me that it is mainly an EV, until the situation arises where it must act as a parallel hybrid to guarantee efficiency and capability. Honestly, when accounting for all this, it looks as if GM's saying that it is a "Extended-Range EV" is the most appropriate.

GM was probably always at risk. That is why Extended Range Electric Vehicle was the closest to the MISSION.

Originally Posted by Hylton

Yes, I agree. Many may say "big deal" but if you've followed the whole EV story since the "70s, it all matters.

Everyone wants to see a true EV that can go 100 miles without a charge. The Volt is a step towards that goal.

That is the magic number, 100. But down the road, batteries will have to be cheaper (big time), lighter (Volt battery is 450 pounds give or take) and smaller (a huge T shape that eliminates the middle seating position in the back seat) and less susceptible to the environment. Hot and cold are devastating to range.

But just here is an interesting thing we don't talk about......infrastructure. At the tech center for the Volt CTF there is a row of "Volt Only Parking" spots with chargers. You can now drive 25 to 50 miles one way, charge the vehicle at work and then drive the 25 to 50 home. Infrastructure just helped double the EV range and double the customers pay back. How many people would have the luxury of charging conveniently in their parking space at work? Not many yet. And with Quick Charging on the horizon, you can reduce the charge time from many hours to under an hour. But that all requires somebody to invest $$$$$.