[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Well, last time I checked the phrase "Everyone else is doing it" doesn't really make the action any better. There are differences in Ford's and GM's financial crisis situations, considering only one company wasn't bought up by the Government(s). The only problem I have is with the media's "holier than thou" attitude towards Ford for them not receiving a direct bailout, and them neglecting the fact of Ford accepting government loans.

It doesn't make the bailout okay. I'm not excited about it either, but it does get people off their high horse on the subject.

Originally Posted by EnvyTerra

Bailout money/goverment buy out and loan money are two different things.
either way it's a shame, but GM took that shame to the next level.

sorry if that hurts anyones feelings, I don't like a coat of sugar on my sugar cubes.

The bailout was fundamentally a low-interest loan and a purchase of stock. GM could use that money to restructure. This is oversimplification, but it basically explains what happened. Governments all over the world routinely invest in large businesses in order to reap from profits or promote technologies that those companies are producing. This is a new move for the US government which goes to show how uneven the playing field has been until this happened.

Originally Posted by Number 3

Purely the words you are using, but if I loan you $10 to get you through the week and you do really really well on your own and don't need the $10 and you give it back to me...................didn't you repay the loan easily due to your sucess? Does that somehow minimize your personal success and hard work?

Also, and I believe it is in the publice record, you should see the list of stuff Ford was asking for DOE loans for. Things GM had already had in production for years as far as technologies for FE improvement.

GMs list actually seemed pretty advanced for the technologies and the programs that increased FE by the specified amount.

Don't get me wrong, Ford has done very well, but they had their look over the cliff when money was available. I have close friends at FoMoCo and they were whistling a far different tune in '06.

It wasn't that Ford was worth more than GM and could borrow against it, they actually just had less debt than GM. But they got financing when money was available. When the old GM made it's last gasps the country was WELL into spiraling gas prices and a tanked financial picture. Remember the top banking leaders went to congress for the handouts before GM did. So there simply wasn't money to borrow at any rate.

So simply using the threat of a bankruptcy, Ford negotiated everything GM and Chrysler were able to except for one key thing........a NO STRIKE CLAUSE and we'll see how that goes.

They strong armed everyone they owed money to reduce debt obligations.

And now they are using money loaned by the governemnt under the pretense of developing fuel saving technologies to pay down debt. How does that smell any different than what GM was beaten up for when they payed back their government loans?

This is exactly correct.

Originally Posted by motorhead

Not the same thing Blur. Now your reaching. Anyway, I for one am glad the government did what they did for GM and Chrylser. It's about time they spend my money on something worthwhile.

GM spent the money on restructuring. That's why GM is profitable now.

They spent their profit on products that they sell, repaying government debts early, and keeping the place open for business. Is that not worthwhile?

Before you jump at me saying that the government still has a majority stake in GM, I'll go ahead and point out that GM has a limited say on when the government will sell it's stake. That's up to the government.

Originally Posted by 1bad65

I don't know about you, but when I spend my money I like to get something in return for my money. Even if the Government makes an amazing profit off the GM stock they own, you and I won't see a dime of it.

Political science professors teach courses on where that money goes. It goes into the budget, and we see the money based on how our elected officials vote. If you want a say on where that money goes, you are welcome to contact your elected officials.