[Supermans]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

This failure will crash the market tomorrow. We're looking at the worst possible situation here—no Detroit automakers, economic meltdown for Western democracies, possible Greater Depression, US federal budget shrinking for future years.

You're jumping the gun here with this prediction. A bankruptcy of GM will do no such thing. A bankruptcy would allow for a restructuring of the union which at the moment is not happening since they aren't budging on even simple terms that are necessary in order to keep paying those retiree benefits along with their own health insurance and salary..

What it will do is allow for a restructuring where the Government money goes towards the retirees (yes this will happen, 14 billion going towards them would be enough for quite awhile and I don't have a problem with the Government helping the retirees since they do deserve it for their hard work up until the pass on to the next life) while GM can get itself out from what has caused this problem in the first place... The only way for legacy costs to disappear is to go into bankruptcy. And that my friend is why US cars cost $3 - $4 grand more than in parts than Toyota's... Going bankrupt will ensure that the company starts making a profit selling cars in the US without the Government being in total control of what kind of cars they can build.. A bailout with tons and tons of pork and even more government control is going to be the death of V8 Camaro's down the road and SUV's..

Now that gas prices are lower, once the economy rebounds which it always does, more people will go out and decide it is time for a new car out of pleasure and not just necessity. I bet a year from now we are all going to be driving our Camaro's and GM would be in a much better situation after filing for bankruptcy than they are in now.. Sure it will be very difficult in the short term and many jobs will be lost. However people need jobs and new ones will be created as there are always people looking for jobs.

If Barack nationalizes health care and cuts the salaries of Doctor's and Pharmacists in half, they won't be too happy about it at first but what would be their alternative since the people no longer are the ones paying... Yes you would have a whole bunch of Doctors protesting but sure enough, they will have to take the pay cuts and go back to work as the Government doesn't budge on policy once it is mandated. I am totally against Nationalizing health care by the way for many reasons...As I am against nationalizing the auto industry..

Let's just pray that whatever happens, that America comes first..And when I mean America I mean We the People, not the Goverment.. Remember that the Constitution was written in such a way to limit Government control over the people.. Why do so many of you people want to give that up and allow the Government to control what type of car you buy and how much you pay for it..Think about it..

Originally Posted by GEARHEAD

IMO the bailout being rejected is the best thing that can happen to GM. The company will have to reform, new management will be put into place that doesn't make millions of dollars per person, the UAW will cease to exist in all GM plants, wages will be cut to a reasonable level, and everybody's Camaro's will be less expensive in the future. GM employees will now see that the UAW doesn't care about their jobs. As soon as bankruptcy is filed the union contract is over and there will be a line of people outside the GM facilities more than happy to work for $20 an hour. It would be nice if high school kids can once again afford to go out and buy a new Camaro like back in the muscle car's heyday.

I totally agree with you on this one..

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Honestly, this is one of the stupidest things that I've seen in my 23 years on this earth. Based on actions of the last year - mortgages, then credit crunch, now this, and the reaction (or inaction) by the government (both dem and rep), I'd almost say that America deserves to fail as a nation. If so many people can be so stupid, in so many areas, then your nation no longer deserves the power and greatness that it built up over the decades and centuries. Problem is, that would bring down about a half dozen other developed nations, including Canada. And I don't feel like learning Chinese.

I'm done now.
back to being a moderator

Are you attributing Government failure and bureaucracy to "the nation" or "the people"? I guess I partially agree with you in that "We the people" did vote most of these fools into office (appointed judges and secretaries being the only ones out of our control including the Secretary of the Treasury). I do disagree that as a nation, we no longer deserve the power and the greatness as at least half of the nation voted against these morons in office. America is still the greatest country on the planet and our resilience will shine thru once this economic turmoil is resolved. Remember that since half of America voted the other way, it does not take much to get people into office to remedy the situation. Remember when Ronald Reagan came into office after the malaise we were all in during the Jimmy Carter years? Trust me extreme environmentalist liberalism (Michael Moore and Al Gore types) are the ones that have caused a lot of these problems the automakers are facing today. In two years, "We the People" will hand over control back to conservatives if there are as many problems then as there are now with a Democrat controlled House and Senate.. I still have faith in America and I hope I can still call it the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave in four years..