CAMARO6 - View Single Post

AZMedia · 10-21-2023, 01:57 AM

Because this thread is the #1 search result on this issue, I want to help with insight. In 1998 I bought a new WS6 Trans Am convertible, still have the car. I experienced this adhesive problem starting around 2005. Spots continue to appear on this Arizona car, but now easy to fix. Below I explain the cause, research, Haartz, and how to clean it.

The bonding adhesive used to combine the 3 different layers of material is bleeding up from the rubber middle layer, and through the acrylic fabric top layer.

Haartz - Fabric Manufacturer
Haartz makes the vinyl tops and cloth tops for most every convertible on the planet. Years ago they made fabric in a 3 layer, a 5 layer for a specific Corvette model, and I think a 7 layer for a few exotics. The density of more layers provides better soundproofing and wrinkle resistance.

All Haartz fabrics are now just 3 layers. They just increase the thickness of each layer to create better sound deadening. Their cloth product line starts with entry level Stayfast, then Twillfast (2011+ Camaro's), and the thickest called Sonneland. These OEM fabrics range from 1.0mm to 1.7mm thick and come in various weave styles.

Their Twillfact product is used on 2011 and newer Camaro's. It's an acrylic fabric on the outside, a butyl rubber middle, and a polyester fabric bottom layer. All three are bonded together by heat, compression, and adhesive. The spots on your top is the bonding adhesive bleeding up through the acrylic fabric. Both fabrics are petroleum based products, so they are basically plastic. However, the acrylic fabric is supposedly an impermeable advanced synthetic polymer. Note: All 1994-02 Camaro/Firebird used the cheaper Stayfast material for OEM tops. Same as above, but uses cotton fabric on the bottom layer, instead of the pretty polyester.

PRODUCTS TESTED:
Over the years we tried about 16 products. The goal was to clean the spots without removing dye, or damaging the fabric's texture. Harsh scrubbing was not an option. Most products removed dye the longer they made contact with the fabric. This included lacquer thinner, Naptha, mineral spirits, 3M's $40 pint of Adhesive Cleaner, Goof Off, rubbing alcohol, and so on. Some strip the oil out of the plastic and makes the fabric's threads brittle, break, fall off, etc.

We also tried products safe for fabric or carpet including Henry's, Folex, 303, 409, Raggtop, and a long list of others. These were safe, but didn't remove the adhesive in any meaningful way. Around 2001 "Goo Gone" was released, and widely sold a few years later. We first tried it around 2006-07. It works perfectly, you just need a little patience.

Goo Gone is an oily/greasy substance that won't hurt the plastic fabric. Only buy the Goo Gone (Original) in liquid that says "SURFACE SAFE" in bold type on the front. Do not buy the gel or other versions.

WHAT YOU NEED:
Goo Gone Liquid (SURFACE SAFE)
Many White Rags (to show any dirt or dye)
"409" or other mild degreaser/cleaner
Soft bristle brushes (horsehair, soft toothbrush, etc)
Spray bottle of water (or garden hose).

HOW TO CLEAN THESE SPOTS:
Apply Goo Gone to a couple spots at a time. Brush lightly for a minute into a foam. Cover with plastic, like a garbage bag, and let sit for 5-10 minutes. Uncover and apply more Goo Gone while brushing. After a couple minutes, apply enough Goo Gone to create a puddle. Then quickly "press" a rag on that area to soak up all of the liquid. Apply Goo Gone again, brush, cover with plastic, and so on. Repeat the process 2-4 times.

Goo Gone is oily so be careful where you set soaked rags. After treating a spot a few times you must clean off all the Goo Gone so it doesn't affect the bond of the layers. This also gives you a good look at the results. Just apply "409" or other safe degreaser to the cleaned spots. Scrub lightly, soak up the degreaser with a new rag and/or rinse with water to wash it away. Dry the spot with a towel to see results. If you still see adhesive, repeat the Goo Gone treatment a couple more times.

Don't let Goo Gone soak on spots for a long time, like for hours. It could loosen or remove the bond between the fabric and underlying rubber layer. This is why you clean off the Goo Gone with degreaser and water after a few treatments.

Every time you wash your fabric convertible top, even with just soapy water, a tiny amount of aged dye comes off. This is no different than what happens to clothes in a washing machine. So don't be concerned if you see a very tiny amount of dye on your white rag when using Goo Gone. Trust me, it's not discoloring the top. Don't confuse dirt on the rag as being dye.

When done cleaning all the spots make sure to wash the entire top. You can use soapy water with a splash of degreaser added to the bucket. After it dries, you might have rag lint on the top. Evercare makes a 10" wide pet lint roller, for furniture from pet hair. It's like a paint roller and perfect for fabric convertible tops. They sell refill rolls too.

It's taken years for your adhesive to bleed through. So it will take time and patience to clean each spot. You might end up with a problematic spot that only cleans to 90% gone, or so. This is OK. Just drive the car and let that freshly exposed adhesive dry out from dirt and sun. Cleaning that spot a few months later will then be easy.

Haartz Comments:
Around 2010 I was able to talk with a knowlegable person at Haartz. He believed it was possibly an issue with the spray heads applying to much adhesive in certain areas when layers are merged to create the bolt of fabric. He really didn't know, and didn't care. He thought it was a one off issue, and probably my fault. It took over a year to get someone to respond, and that's all I got.

Typical Location of Spots:
Although a 6th Gen forum, it's worth noting the older cars. On the 94-02 Cam/Bird, these spots seem to occur mostly above the "tension straps". These two straps are like wide elastic seat belts that run from the windshield to the back window, on each side of the top (see images). They are fastened to the rails and not part of the convertible top fabric. It's possible they could be putting upward pressure on the Stayfast or Twillfast material. This might be why the adhesive is looking for a way out.

Tension Strap Locations -
1994-02 Camaro/Firebird:

1998 TA WS6 Vert:
My spots never seemd to go beyond the edges of the tension straps located underneath. Spots were always around the stiched seams on both driver and passenger side. One long spot occurs on top of the last rail, the one above the rear window.

10-21-2023, 01:57 AM	#49
AZMedia Drives: 98 TA WS6 Vert Join Date: Sep 2023 Location: Arizona Posts: 1	Because this thread is the #1 search result on this issue, I want to help with insight. In 1998 I bought a new WS6 Trans Am convertible, still have the car. I experienced this adhesive problem starting around 2005. Spots continue to appear on this Arizona car, but now easy to fix. Below I explain the cause, research, Haartz, and how to clean it. The bonding adhesive used to combine the 3 different layers of material is bleeding up from the rubber middle layer, and through the acrylic fabric top layer. Haartz - Fabric Manufacturer Haartz makes the vinyl tops and cloth tops for most every convertible on the planet. Years ago they made fabric in a 3 layer, a 5 layer for a specific Corvette model, and I think a 7 layer for a few exotics. The density of more layers provides better soundproofing and wrinkle resistance. All Haartz fabrics are now just 3 layers. They just increase the thickness of each layer to create better sound deadening. Their cloth product line starts with entry level Stayfast, then Twillfast (2011+ Camaro's), and the thickest called Sonneland. These OEM fabrics range from 1.0mm to 1.7mm thick and come in various weave styles. Their Twillfact product is used on 2011 and newer Camaro's. It's an acrylic fabric on the outside, a butyl rubber middle, and a polyester fabric bottom layer. All three are bonded together by heat, compression, and adhesive. The spots on your top is the bonding adhesive bleeding up through the acrylic fabric. Both fabrics are petroleum based products, so they are basically plastic. However, the acrylic fabric is supposedly an impermeable advanced synthetic polymer. Note: All 1994-02 Camaro/Firebird used the cheaper Stayfast material for OEM tops. Same as above, but uses cotton fabric on the bottom layer, instead of the pretty polyester. PRODUCTS TESTED: Over the years we tried about 16 products. The goal was to clean the spots without removing dye, or damaging the fabric's texture. Harsh scrubbing was not an option. Most products removed dye the longer they made contact with the fabric. This included lacquer thinner, Naptha, mineral spirits, 3M's $40 pint of Adhesive Cleaner, Goof Off, rubbing alcohol, and so on. Some strip the oil out of the plastic and makes the fabric's threads brittle, break, fall off, etc. We also tried products safe for fabric or carpet including Henry's, Folex, 303, 409, Raggtop, and a long list of others. These were safe, but didn't remove the adhesive in any meaningful way. Around 2001 "Goo Gone" was released, and widely sold a few years later. We first tried it around 2006-07. It works perfectly, you just need a little patience. Goo Gone is an oily/greasy substance that won't hurt the plastic fabric. Only buy the Goo Gone (Original) in liquid that says "SURFACE SAFE" in bold type on the front. Do not buy the gel or other versions. WHAT YOU NEED: Goo Gone Liquid (SURFACE SAFE) Many White Rags (to show any dirt or dye) "409" or other mild degreaser/cleaner Soft bristle brushes (horsehair, soft toothbrush, etc) Spray bottle of water (or garden hose). HOW TO CLEAN THESE SPOTS: Apply Goo Gone to a couple spots at a time. Brush lightly for a minute into a foam. Cover with plastic, like a garbage bag, and let sit for 5-10 minutes. Uncover and apply more Goo Gone while brushing. After a couple minutes, apply enough Goo Gone to create a puddle. Then quickly "press" a rag on that area to soak up all of the liquid. Apply Goo Gone again, brush, cover with plastic, and so on. Repeat the process 2-4 times. Goo Gone is oily so be careful where you set soaked rags. After treating a spot a few times you must clean off all the Goo Gone so it doesn't affect the bond of the layers. This also gives you a good look at the results. Just apply "409" or other safe degreaser to the cleaned spots. Scrub lightly, soak up the degreaser with a new rag and/or rinse with water to wash it away. Dry the spot with a towel to see results. If you still see adhesive, repeat the Goo Gone treatment a couple more times. Don't let Goo Gone soak on spots for a long time, like for hours. It could loosen or remove the bond between the fabric and underlying rubber layer. This is why you clean off the Goo Gone with degreaser and water after a few treatments. Every time you wash your fabric convertible top, even with just soapy water, a tiny amount of aged dye comes off. This is no different than what happens to clothes in a washing machine. So don't be concerned if you see a very tiny amount of dye on your white rag when using Goo Gone. Trust me, it's not discoloring the top. Don't confuse dirt on the rag as being dye. When done cleaning all the spots make sure to wash the entire top. You can use soapy water with a splash of degreaser added to the bucket. After it dries, you might have rag lint on the top. Evercare makes a 10" wide pet lint roller, for furniture from pet hair. It's like a paint roller and perfect for fabric convertible tops. They sell refill rolls too. It's taken years for your adhesive to bleed through. So it will take time and patience to clean each spot. You might end up with a problematic spot that only cleans to 90% gone, or so. This is OK. Just drive the car and let that freshly exposed adhesive dry out from dirt and sun. Cleaning that spot a few months later will then be easy. Haartz Comments: Around 2010 I was able to talk with a knowlegable person at Haartz. He believed it was possibly an issue with the spray heads applying to much adhesive in certain areas when layers are merged to create the bolt of fabric. He really didn't know, and didn't care. He thought it was a one off issue, and probably my fault. It took over a year to get someone to respond, and that's all I got. Typical Location of Spots: Although a 6th Gen forum, it's worth noting the older cars. On the 94-02 Cam/Bird, these spots seem to occur mostly above the "tension straps". These two straps are like wide elastic seat belts that run from the windshield to the back window, on each side of the top (see images). They are fastened to the rails and not part of the convertible top fabric. It's possible they could be putting upward pressure on the Stayfast or Twillfast material. This might be why the adhesive is looking for a way out. Tension Strap Locations - 1994-02 Camaro/Firebird: 1998 TA WS6 Vert: My spots never seemd to go beyond the edges of the tension straps located underneath. Spots were always around the stiched seams on both driver and passenger side. One long spot occurs on top of the last rail, the one above the rear window. Last edited by AZMedia; 10-21-2023 at 05:31 AM.