Originally Posted by Martinjlm
My thoughts in red, interspersed with Wyzz Kidd’s original thoughts….
Because it’s not cleaner, it’s not cheaper and it’s a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.
1. True. But keep in mind that except for a few specific examples we are dealing with first generation EVs and their cost footprints are constantly improving even without generational change. Also, the Total Cost of Ownership is already lower for most EVs when compared to similar model ICE. Can’t get past the cost per mile of electricity as a fuel being way the hell below cost per mile of gasoline.. EV's have been around for decades. As I stated, right now, they cost more. You're simply going back to the 'promise' that at some point that will change. That has yet to be proven. They cost more to purchase, even with subsidies. Not to mention our current grid is nowhere near being able to support an all or even majority EV future.
2. The US is not in the UK, therefore irrelevant Um, tell that to the people who have to purchase and use them in the UK. I'm sure they think it's relevant. If we implement the same measure the UK has (and that's where we're headed) we'll find ourselves in the same situation. Canary in a coal mine essentially.
3. In the US this is changing in parallel to the introduction of high volume EV.. Again, pie in the sky promises about the future. We're not even close to being able to support pure EVs now. That is a fact. We're nowhere near 100% renewables now and there is no indication of how we could get there. Those are facts. Your statement is speculation about what 'might' happen.
4. EVs have more range than the average person drives in a day, take ZERO time to fill up at the beginning of the day because if plugged in over night, you have a “full tank” every morning. Between second use of expired car batteries (energy storage) and a growing recycling / remanufacturing business, there is likely to be competition for expired car batteries, much like their has been high demand for catalytic converters since the mid ‘70s. For the average person in an urban environment yeah, you're right those measure will work, unless of course like many they park on the street. How do they charge overnight then. What about the rest of us? The greens position is - tough crap for you people who don't live in cities, deal with it. And, of course, more talk about what is 'likely' but doesn't exist today.
5. Not wrong, per se, but the interesting thing here is that the same materials are needed in smaller quantities in ICE vehicles. So either way, the issue needs to be addressed. It should also be noted that though most cobalt (as an example) is mined in Republic of Congo and child slave labor problems exist in Republic of Congo, it does not equate to any cobalt sourced from Republic of Congo is mined through child slave labor. The vast majority of cobalt mined in the Republic of Congo is mined through acceptable socio-economic processes. Assuming “all cobalt that comes from RoC is mined through child slave labor is parallel to a thought process similar to “anybody who owns an AR-15 is a likely ass shooter”. Both statements are gross over-reach. Much much smaller quantities. If you're cool with driving a vehicle that depends on forcing 12 year olds to work 12-16 hours a day 7 days a week in a toxic environment I guess that's your decision.
6. This part is not universally true. The issue is not the “availability”, it is the “financially viable” availability. Just like oil in the ‘90s. Remember fracking? There were oil reserves that were not reachable by conventional methods, but if it was worth the expense and process shift (fracking) then “hallelujah! There’s more oil!” The oil was already there. It was just more difficult and more expensive to get to. Same thing with lithium. And cobalt. And copper. Et cetera. The areas that are most problematic are and will continue to be several rare earth metals that are required for electric motor manufacture. . Essentially you're saying if EVs become even more expensive it will become economically viable to extract the materials we need. You're right, all it will take is for the average consumer to pay a lot more for a vehicle to make this work.
7. But it is already, in the first generation of EV, with old methods of power generation, cleaner over life cycle than ICE will ever be. And EVs and power generation will continue to get cleaner with generational improvements. That's a statement of belief, not fact. Again, pie in the sky promises about what you 'think' will happen, but hasn't yet.
There is some fact in what Wyzz Kidd says, but a lot of it is misapplied. Sorta like if someone were to drag race their Camaro SS against a Mustang EcoBoost and declare “Camaros are clearly faster than Mustangs”. It’s true for a specific set of facts, but totally ignores the fact that there is a Mustang Shelby GT 500 lurking around. Because UK has some weird policies that allow for price gouging of electric vehicle charging does not translate to US buyers of electric vehicles will pay similar prices to operate EVs which is clearly the more relevant fact set.
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