[theholycow]

Egads...everybody seems to see the issue as black-and-white, but it's usually a dirty grey, and most stories are never completely told.

First off, cops are human, and bound to make human mistakes. Their job is very dangerous and they are rightfully full of fear. We prepare them for that danger with weapons and education, and most of them deal with each situation based on whatever information they're able to gather. So, when someone does this...

Originally Posted by Bumble Bee '77

Burned, bloody and naked, the man reportedly kicked another man who offered assistance. He reportedly jumped on a woman’s car, beat her sunroof and ran down Southeast 362nd Avenue near Bluff Road. [...] “combative and totally unresponsive to the audible law enforcement commands to comply.”
Tasers deliver 50,000 volts of electricity through two barbs, but reportedly had no effect.

...they really are calculating the best choice possible. What, let the crazed man (regardless of why he's crazed) keep attacking people and property? No, stop him with whatever force is required. There is no right answer for these cops, and it sucks that they have to end up in a situation with no right answer...but I guess that's their job.

OTOH, as humans, they are prone to human mistakes, misjudgements, and instinctive reactions to fear...as well as some just being ****ing assholes on power trips. It's unavoidable, the guy who hires them is human, the guy who trains them is human, and the position attracts such people. They try to keep those jerks out but nobody is infalliable.

Now, add to that, the fact that non-cops are also humans, prone to fear, mistakes, and misjudgements...and so we become afraid of the evil and good but mistaken cops. I guess that's how we all end up so polarized on the issue!

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

You got THAT right! I'd LOVE to give an example that happened on Sat, but can't due to being on the call and having witnessed "the find" that newspapers never said happened. Incredible...........

Ok, here's an older one. Providence, RI PD officer Cornell Young Jr was shot some years ago in a police standoff. He was off duty at the time. Police responded to a call about an armed conflict in the nastiest ghetto in the state. They showed up to see a standoff with what appeared to be gang members pointing guns at eachother. One was actually Mr. Young, but he didn't look like a cop; he was dressed and acting like a gang member. They yelled repeatedly for him to identify himself drop his weapon, but he did neither. They ended up shooting him and he died. He apparently thought that they were yelling at the others and assumed that they recognized him without having to identify himself.

It is a sad enough story, but I think the aftermath is even worse. For years afterwards, and possibly still going on now, it became a race issue. The fallen officer was black, and the two who shot him were white. Of course, in the beginning, the media didn't provide the whole story; they helped start the problem. Then his mother really riled it up; I can understand that a distraught mother, having lost her son, needs to make something out of it...but she really made something terrible when it just wasn't necessary. All in all, it became even worse than one man's death. His death was made into a circus, and his dignity stripped by all the bullshit.

Here's another. The Narragansett Indian tribe bought a piece of land and opened up a cigarette stand selling illegally, I think at prices below the legal minimum...whatever it was, they were claiming that they could do it as a sovereign nation, even though it wasn't on a reservation. They were bothered by law enforcement, and eventually the governor gave them a date that they had to stop or he'd send in the state troopers. RI state troopers were sent to raid on that date, and guess what they found: The tribe's chief, his pregnant wife, and other tribe members physically fighting back, pushing against the officers and attacking them. The whole event was videotaped. Can you guess what happened? They claimed that the police attacked them (even the pregnant wife), and were taken seriously despite the video (which was shown on the news a million times) clearly showing what really happened.

It goes the other way, too. The example about the bicyclist above is pretty tough to argue. There are certainly far too many cops who practice racism or abuse their authority. I know we've got examples of those in this state, too, but I don't remember them off the top of my head.

Originally Posted by Eisenhower

And not everybody runs from an immediate problem. Lots of people have and know how to use hand guns for home or personal protection. I for one wouldn't hesitate to shoot an intruder in my home for example; and there's a lot of people who feel the same. Not everybody runs and hides.

Castle Doctrine FTW!

It might not work so well if the person you shoot is a cop, though.