[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by gringo

Nice slam post about how you hate Challenger. Think of it this way, though. That big ole sloppy handling slow shifting Challenger is kicking both the Mustang and Camaro's butt in sales.

The things you complain about is par for the course. The Challenger is a modern day muscle car, not a sports car. The Camaro, especially the 6th gen, is more sports car like than it has ever heen.

Instead of marketing more CUVs, GM could have developed a competitor to the hot selling Challenger and maybe called it...oh let's say...the Chevelle. A car like that would sell like hotcakes to people who like the Camaro but need just a little more room.

Unfortunately, GM won't do anything wise like that.

GM did offer a “Chevelle”, except it was called Chevy SS. The Chevelle name was considered, but just not used. It was off the Holden’s Zeta platform, just like the GTO that it replaced when Pontiac went away and just like Gen 5 Camaro. Sold “ok” but was limited by import restrictions and high price.

As far as offering something like that over pick-a-model CUV? Dollars speak volumes. A lot more than sales figures. I can’t think of a GM CUV model that sells less than 100,000 units a year at similar profit margins to Camaro. Actually, I can think of one. Cadillac XT5. But I would expect profit per unit for those is a bit higher than Camaro and most other GM CUVs. What profit based company would not want to sell more volume at similar or better profit margin?

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

I didn't say it was just due to Transformers. It was the combination of Transformers and the return of the nameplate. The pent up demand would have dried out most likely by the 2012-2013 MY, but the 5th gen remained strong through out the generation.



I am also not blaming just the decreasing halo from the transformers franchise either for the 6th gens downfall. It's part of the equation. The Challenger has been the same car for the last 10 years on the same 20 year old platform with some styling updates along the way. It was bringing up the rear in a very distant third until Dodge slapped a 707 HP engine into it and successfully marketed it. Cause if it is the styling of the Challenger that is causing the uprising, it wouldn't have been averaging 3000 sales a month when Mustang and 5th gen Camaro was pulling in 7000-10,000 sales a month before the Hellcat. The yuppies are buying the Challenger now because of the Hellcat. Sort of like people who buy a 320i and slap a M3 badge on it because they want people to think they have a Hellcat instead of a V6 Challenger or R/T. You can also argue with the market shifting towards CUV's/practical cars, the Challenger is the only vehicle in the segment that has the most practicality to sell to the family.

A Chevelle is just not going to happen. GM doesn't have a platform for it, would still overlap with the Camaro too much, and they are done with just straight line machines.

I think there are two angles to the Challenger story, based on which part of the lineup you’re talking about. I think Challenger (and Charger) are selling more Scat Packs because of Hellcat and Demon. Performance oriented buyers come in to look at Hellcat and find they can get into an R/T or even a Scat Pack at a reasonable price. Clearly a halo effect. They’ve also done some really cool things with paint and tape packages that make the 10 year old design look good.

On the lower end, it’s very simple. P-R-I-C-E. BECAUSE it’s a 10 year old design on a 20 year old platform, cost is lower than S550 and Alpha so they can afford to price it lower than Ford or GM can price Mustang or Camaro. Lease deals in the Detroit area are ridiculously low.

As I pointed out above, Chevelle already happened, and a lot of people simply didn’t care.

Originally Posted by gringo

Well, remember Dodge still has the Charger which probably has the most practicality of them all since it has four doors. The Challenger model fits in that niche where no other automaker has a good presence in these days. A relatively fast roomy car with heritage styling cues from the past.

I don't think people are buying lower end model Challengers because they can slap a Hellcat badge on it and make people think it's a Hellcat. They're buying Challengers because they offer the closest approximation to what the old muscle cars provided in their younger days.

Also, Dodge didn't screw up the design of the Challenger yet. They kept it mostly the same adding tasteful tweaks (here and there) and adding more power over the years.

I agree with the fact that GM doesn't have a platform to do a Chevelle model on. They really didn't have a platform for the 5th gen either, but they made due with a fullsized platform borrowed from Holden and designed a beautiful retro design body around it. Now, they could've also done a Chevelle model off the Zeta too, but that is a moot point now.

Keeping the Challenger design fresh without changing it much is definitely a huge success for FCA. Look how much Charger has changed over the years. Then park a 2008 Challenger next to a 2018. Most of the differences are things someone modding their car might do. No sheet metal changes. Very subtle tail lamp and front lighting changes. A lot of paint options and tape jobs. Well played, Dodge.