WILL 14% LOWER PULLEY CAUSE HEATING PROBLEMS?
 

I just purchased the mods outlined below:

Texas Speed 2" long tube headers & X pipe (cat delete)
Roto-Fab Big Gulp cold air intake
Nick Williams 103MM throttle body
ATI balancer and 14% overdrive pulley ring
Gates green belt
Jokerz "Full Tilt" ported supercharger
NGK LTRIX7 plugs
Cordes Expansion Tank
Elite E2-X Catch Can

I just watched Andrew of CSP do that Friday night Q&A. He mentioned - more than once - that he didn't like increasing the boost on the stock blower because of cooling issues. I see that many of you are running overdrive pulleys on your cars. Do you think I will have problems with the 14% pulley?
I will have to have a remote tune and after hearing him talk, my head is spinning about that. If I understood him correctly, there are quite a few adjustments that just can't be done without a dyno. But he also said that if the average Joe wasn't so stupid (his word, not mine),he would do remotes. I am confused. Would someone please educate me!

Also, I won't be able to connect the downstream o2 sensor. Could that be a problem? It must have some use. Andrew also talked about editing out safeguards being a very slippery slope. I think he called it "desensitizing" some of the data in the tables.

This is for you that have installed the 2" TSP headers. Are they a fairly easy install or will I have to take apart half the car? And what about fitment?

I would really appreciate it if I could get some direction from you guys that have already worked through some of these worries and issues. I don't want to install these mods and then be afraid to use them.

I thank you all in advance for your help.

You'll face heat issues yes. The LT4 blower wasn't designed with cooling in mind :) Just look how the performance decreases when its bone stock in hot temps. Of course you can add the 14% lower but you'll see it heatsoak faster that's all. Hes correct about remote tuning, it's much easier to dial in a tune on a dyno. While remote tuning of course can be done, you'll need to somehow reproduce a log in a similiar fashion as a WOT run on a dyno on the street. Reason being is spark tables need to be dialed in carefully so you don't have a tune with it knocking all over the place. Also having a wideband to dial in A/F mixture.



Hes correct with people being stupid. If your told to do 1 and only 1 full WOT pull in a certain gear and you show a log of 4 WOT pulls, that's stupid... No one wants to take a risk of damaging your engine because end user doesn't want to listen to instructions.


The headers go in fine, many people do them in their garages.

I'm running a 14% lower, headers, ported tb, rotofab and running e40. I've now been to one 1/2 mile event with 15 passes, 2 days of roadcourse with one in 90 degree heat and I could evidence no heat soak issues via aeroforce gauge or seat of the pants. I was more then impressed with the way this car handles heat vs other cars I've had.

Your mod list is just fine and plenty of people run up to a 15% overdrive crank pulley without issues. Andrew's thoughts on not increasing boost was also directed more specifically towards Z06 owners than ZL1 owners due to the cooling issues in a Z06. I think his stance is that you can get plenty of power of these cars that will satisfy most people without increasing the boost with pullies. That being said, almost every other shop uses pullies in their packages and I'm certain CSP does their fair share of pulley installs also. There's just more than one way to skin a cat. Just looking at at the CSP packages, starting with the stage 2 package includes a Griptec pulley.

https://www.cspracing.com/2017-camaro-zl1-package/

I don't see any reason for you to use the 103mm TB though without a ported blower. The stock blower inlet is going to be a restriction with a 103mm TB likely negating any gains you'll get from it.

Let me clear up what Andrew said on the live stream. He didn't say the average Joe was stupid, he said SOME people are stupid. He made it very clear that he's had situations where he gave specific instructions to a customer to make one data log pull and send him the results so he can adjust the tune. He said some people will make five data log pulls and send them him the results. The problem is that if something is really off in the tune, you're less likely to damage the vehicle after one data log pull than you are after five data log pulls. This is why he said that. He also stated its easier to work with a shop on remote tunes because they have a better ear for knowing when something just isn't right.

He talked about desensitizing the knock protection in cars with bigger cams because sometimes they can produce false knock, also in situations where a set of headers may be making contact with some part of the car.

IMHO, the heating issue comes into play if you track the car! So it comes down to....what do you plan on doing with it, should be the main factor in your decision. Or at least that is the consensus among most folks here on the forum.

Agreed. I have never had a heating problem on the street, even in extended driving on hot Georgia summer days. On the track, I have never had a “problem” but on hot days power can be down slightly after multiple laps, not nearly to the point of overheating or any spark knock, but a bit more lag/lazy feel when I accelerate hard. If my ZLE was a pure track car I would not have done the smaller pulley, on the street the additional power is immediate and makes the car a blast to drive.

Thank you all for your thoughts. It will be a little while before the install is done. Since I am doing it myself, please be ready for a number of "How to" posts to hit the forum.

Thanks for letting me hang around here, it's an awesome place to be.

I think that is a great set up. Looks like our stage 2 package which we usually pull great numbers with (690-710rwhp). We have plenty of customers running this package on the street. If you're going to track it hard I might recommend an upgraded heat exchanger. It'll run about an extra 10-15 degrees hotter (intake temps) then a stock LT4. Make sure you system is bleed right and it'll be fine. If you want to make back to back passes or kill it at a half mile event toss on a interchiller. They make a lot of sense on these cars for the street and drag strip.



Remote tuning can work but a dyno tune from a reputable tuner is always preferred.



The rear o2s don't provide data on these cars. They are just nannies to check for cats. No worries there.


The 2" Tsp headers need to be dented every now and again to fit (most 2" headers do). Before you bolt them up check for clearance issues. Anywhere tight will eventually contact on a hard turn. Also, you'll want to reroute the wiring harness by the passenger header. Just zip tie it up and away from the header.

Vengeance Racing is installing an 18% underdrive on mine as we speak but they are also installing AFCO heat exchangers and a KONG ported blower. Granted, I don't plan to road race my car but they don't feel 18% is an issue with the AFCO heat exchangers.

There is a lot of Debate on this subject and I often chime in to offer free help.

After working with pulleys, fully ported blowers, bigger throttle bodies etc I have come to the conclusion don't waste money on the little blower.

If you want to run more than stock boost buy a 2650 and be done.

This conclusion has been there since blowers came to be main stream about 30 years now,, a small blower overspinning is never a good thing.

The intercoolers inside the blower can not handle any additional volume of air or heat.

Many self proclaimed professional tuners will have opinions on Dyno VS Remote.

Let me say this... I am very busy fixing Dyno tunes Remotely.

With todays data acquisition equipment we can gather in many cases better data on the street/track vs on the dyno.

The street/track is where you drive your car so why not tune it on the street/track

The dyno is a great tool for getting alot done in a very short time but the Street/Track tuning is where the car will shine at the end of the day.

Also great for printing dyno sheets but I don't see any races won with a dyno sheet.

A successful tune is not made by the dyno or the street/track it is made by the experience of the person writing the tune.

Ted.

Your opinion is certainly well respected Ted.

Amen.