FenwickHockey65's Great Thread of GM Knowledge

[KMPrenger]

WTH gm??

Releasing the new Traverse as a Hybrid for other markets, but not America? I'd love to know why! Not enough interest?? Yeah I think not...Toyota sells a lot of hybrids here.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/11...aked-in-china/

[mlee]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

WTH gm??

Releasing the new Traverse as a Hybrid for other markets, but not America? I'd love to know why! Not enough interest?? Yeah I think not...Toyota sells a lot of hybrids here.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/11...aked-in-china/

Damn... and that's the best looking Traverse yet

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

WTH gm??

Releasing the new Traverse as a Hybrid for other markets, but not America? I'd love to know why! Not enough interest?? Yeah I think not...Toyota sells a lot of hybrids here.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/11...aked-in-china/

When I was still at GM in Product Portfolio Planning, there were a few of us trying to push the idea of 48V mild hybrids. It was a consideration, but ultimately it didn’t get greenlit in the US. GM China did green light 48V mild hybrids. R&D and manufacturing for powertrains in China are separate from R&D and manufacturing funding for powertrains in the US. I expect that this Traverse is likely a GM China engineered and produced 48V mild hybrid product. Likewise, even though Chevrolet Volt and the Voltec system have been dropped here in the US, Voltec lives on in China and is used in a handful of Chevrolet and Buick products. All funded by GM China.

[genxer]

I'd pick a mild hybrid over a turbo'd tiny.

Voltec makes the most sense for the Traverse and newBlazer. Most people pay a decent chunk of change for them. Voltec there would open a need for a cheaper 3 row below that though.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by genxer

I'd pick a mild hybrid over a turbo'd tiny.

Voltec makes the most sense for the Traverse and newBlazer. Most people pay a decent chunk of change for them. Voltec there would open a need for a cheaper 3 row below that though.

I hope I didn’t give the impression that Traverse would have Voltec. Nope. Not in this lifetime. In any country. As for mild hybrid? China yes, because they developed it there for use there. In US no because it would require significant engineering investment and would only make sense from a CAFE standpoint if all or nearly all vehicles had it as standard equipment.

[90503]

I think you guys are missing a key factor in the big picture: Hybrids still use gasoline/fossil fuels. That doesn't fit in with the car-maker's plans and commitments for full EV line-ups across the board by 2030-2035 or whatever.

Your choices will be intentionally limited to full EV only, especially and likely exclusively in the U.S. as a policy to "fighting global warming." The rest of the world gets a free-pass.

Hybrids may be a good idea, but not if the end of using fossil fuels is the goal.

[genxer]

Martinjlm: I'm thinking the Ramcharger powertrain tips off the future direction of Grand Cherokee. GM for whatever reason gave up competing with it.

90503: Affordability is being destroyed, it sucks. Circumstances are window dressing

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

I think you guys are missing a key factor in the big picture: Hybrids still use gasoline/fossil fuels. That doesn't fit in with the car-maker's plans and commitments for full EV line-ups across the board by 2030-2035 or whatever.

Your choices will be intentionally limited to full EV only, especially and likely exclusively in the U.S. as a policy to "fighting global warming." The rest of the world gets a free-pass.

Hybrids may be a good idea, but not if the end of using fossil fuels is the goal.

Thing is, China and Europe are moving in this direction significantly faster than the US. South America and Africa are the only regions moving slower than the U.S., but they don’t have automotive markets to speak of.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by genxer

Martinjlm: I'm thinking the Ramcharger powertrain tips off the future direction of Grand Cherokee. GM for whatever reason gave up competing with it.

90503: Affordability is being destroyed, it sucks. Circumstances are window dressing

You could be right about Grand Cherokee, or maybe more likely Grand Wagoneer. It’s a very expensive and very heavy technology set. Not sure Grand Cherokee can absorb the mass or the cost.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

... In US no because it would require significant engineering investment and would only make sense from a CAFE standpoint if all or nearly all vehicles had it as standard equipment.

Hindsight is 20/20, but I do believe that nearly all GM vehicles should've had it. I know GM decided EV or nothing, so it is what it is, but in my tiny humble opinion a bunch of cars running around using Voltec like technology is where we should be in the car world right now. Toyota gets it, even as they move on with full EV development.

Originally Posted by 90503

I think you guys are missing a key factor in the big picture: Hybrids still use gasoline/fossil fuels. That doesn't fit in with the car-maker's plans and commitments for full EV line-ups across the board by 2030-2035 or whatever.

Your choices will be intentionally limited to full EV only, especially and likely exclusively in the U.S. as a policy to "fighting global warming." The rest of the world gets a free-pass.

Hybrids may be a good idea, but not if the end of using fossil fuels is the goal.

I get there's sarcasm in this post. I also think the car-makers plans are doo doo.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Hindsight is 20/20, but I do believe that nearly all GM vehicles should've had it. I know GM decided EV or nothing, so it is what it is, but in my tiny humble opinion a bunch of cars running around using Voltec like technology is where we should be in the car world right now. Toyota gets it, even as they move on with full EV development.

…

For every GM vehicle to have Voltec would be prohibitively expensive. Even more expensive than going 100% EV. It requires a fully functional EV propulsion system, an almost fully functional ICE propulsion system, and sophisticated electronic controls systems to manage split second handoffs between the two systems. With Volt it made sense because battery size could be reduced (18 kWh vs 40 - 60 kWh) at a time when battery prices were in the $3-500/kWh range. Reducing the battery size offset the cost of the ICE and the controls systems. Now that battery prices are in the $100/kWh range and dropping, more battery makes sense, especially if you get to eliminate the engine, transmission, exhaust system, fuel system, and greatly simplify the control system.

[Martinjlm]

So minutes after my previous posts, this report that GM might be considering adding hybrids back into the portfolio surfaced. I’ll have to keep an eye on this. When the “all EV” strategy was first announced, I interpreted it to mean EV = electrified (which would include hybrids). Clearly I was wrong. I know that there are hybrids still in China and that there will be hybrids sold in South America, but my understanding was that the hybrids in South America would be sourced fro China. Maybe this is a shift in strategy.

https://youtu.be/7RZ4Wu57xFY?si=lHM8IC22iTgiCA6v

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

So minutes after my previous posts, this report that GM might be considering adding hybrids back into the portfolio surfaced. I’ll have to keep an eye on this. When the “all EV” strategy was first announced, I interpreted it to mean EV = electrified (which would include hybrids). Clearly I was wrong. I know that there are hybrids still in China and that there will be hybrids sold in South America, but my understanding was that the hybrids in South America would be sourced fro China. Maybe this is a shift in strategy.

https://youtu.be/7RZ4Wu57xFY?si=lHM8IC22iTgiCA6v

Well looky there!

Thanks for sharing Jim. I don't know a whole lot about these hybrid drivetrains that GM is developing for South America. Are these just mild hybrid systems, or are they more robust, such as the Toyota systems which can run 40 or so miles on battery only before requiring the ICE drivetrain?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Well looky there!

Thanks for sharing Jim. I don't know a whole lot about these hybrid drivetrains that GM is developing for South America. Are these just mild hybrid systems, or are they more robust, such as the Toyota systems which can run 40 or so miles on battery only before requiring the ICE drivetrain?

TBH, I would characterize this as “So you’re tellin’ me there’s a chance”. I wouldn’t put money on it.