10% ethenol performance?

[Mr. Wyndham]

First, it's EthAnol. . And all modern engines (newer than '85, I believe) will readily handle an Ethanol blend of 10% or less. They are built with this in mind, so don't worry.

Secondly, the blend is so low, you will have to TRY to notice any fuel economy loss. Maybe 30 miles per tank...which can be attributed to driving 5mph over the speed limit, too.......but you won't notice a performance gain, because the engine has to be built to maximize the burn and take advantage of that high octane rating. (E85 is equivalent to 104, or something crazy like that)

The ethanol burns hotter, and contributes to the fuels octane rating...Ask the LeMans Corvette team. They will swear to you that Ethanol is a race fuel. Because it burns hotter, will also reduce emissions, and minutely act as a cleaning agent (because the A/F mixture will burn a little hotter and tend to burn the gunk off of the insides of the engine. Nothing extreme, it's not a miracle-fuel, but it does help.

The fuel comes from a variety of places, some is shipped from Brazil, made with sugar-cane, some is made from US corn, etc, etc (though there's no concrete evidence that it, alone, raised food prices...). It is worth nothing, however, that there have been recent strides in ethanol production technology, allowing it to be made with waste product, like wood-chips, plant-based garbage, or rubber. It can be produced efficiently this way, and for nearly $1.00 a gallon. It can be made in local production plants (lowering shipping costs, and using local waste). There's also been advancements in grass/algae-based ethanol production, too. It's very exciting...for me anyways......

[Salameth]

Very good information Dragoneye. Thanks for the information.

[v6sonoma]

In RI about 2 or so years they switched from adding MBTE to ethanol it really doesn't effect cars too much but small engines like lawn mowers will go to crap because the ethanol is corrosive to the fuel lines. Fuel stabilizer can help but my bikes carbs got screwed and I had to shell out $300 to get them cleaned. So as long as the gas is fresh your fine. Let it sit and you'll have issues.

[mtcwby]

Every winter, in cities that have pollution problems they go to E10 at the pumps. Usually from Oct. to April. You wil see the price go up at the pump, but it shouldn't because it's cheaper to make. Also I always see a 1-2 mpg decrease during these months. I have been able to get regular unleaded gas in alot of the rural towns that don't have the EPA forcing them to switch since they don't have the air quality problems. I try to stay away from E10 whenever possible. They do kind of the same thing with diesel except they blend regular #2 diesel with about 25% #1 diesel or kerosene during the winter months. But not for air quality. It's to keep the #2 diesel from gelling up
in the cold weather. Since #1 diesel doesn't have as much energy as #2 diesel, the mileage suffers too. I usually see 3-4 mpg difference with my diesel one ton. Sucks, but we have to live with it.

[CWI]

Exerpt taken from Wikipedia. Is this how you support your neighbors?

Michael Grunwald reports that one person could be fed for 1 year "on the corn needed to fill an ethanol-fueled SUV".[44] He further reports that though "hyped as an eco-friendly fuel, ethanol increases global warming, destroys forests and inflates food prices." Environmentalists, livestock farmers, and opponents of subsidies say that increased ethanol production won't meet energy goals and may damage the environment, while at the same time causing worldwide food prices to soar. Some of the controversial subsidies in the past have included more than $10 billion to Archer-Daniels-Midland since 1980.[45][neutrality disputed] Critics also speculate that as ethanol is more widely used, changing irrigation practices could greatly increase pressure on water resources. In October 2007, 28 environmental groups decried the Renewable Fuels Standard (RFS), a legislative effort intended to increase ethanol production, and said that the measure will "lead to substantial environmental damage and a system of biofuels production that will not benefit family farmers...will not promote sustainable agriculture and will not mitigate global climate change."[46][47]

[Kwaz1335]

ethanol is the one product that burns hotter and cleaner than gasoline...It dose increase performance and is used by many racing teams...However, the problem is the amount of money and resources needed to create a mass amount of ethanol. Gasoline is cheaper to produce and is easier to come by. If we were to try and produce as much ethanol as we do gasoline we would be a starving country. Scientists are currently working on a bacteria that converts organic sources into ethanol http://www.scienceline.org/2008/11/2...bacteria-fuel/

[onechuck]

I my town there are signs popping up at certain gas stations saying "100% gasoline no ethanol" and you are going to pay 5 cents more a gallon over ethanol gas. I would rather run 100% gas over ethanol in my stuff, less trouble later. Also 100% gas without ethanol is better to store in mowers, boat, and 4 wheelers through the winter. Much more stable for long period of time.

[97one]

Originally Posted by CWIweldace

Exerpt taken from Wikipedia. Is this how you support your neighbors?

Michael Grunwald reports that one person could be fed for 1 year "on the corn needed to fill an ethanol-fueled SUV".[44] He further reports that though "hyped as an eco-friendly fuel, ethanol increases global warming, destroys forests and inflates food prices." Environmentalists, livestock farmers, and opponents of subsidies say that increased ethanol production won't meet energy goals and may damage the environment, while at the same time causing worldwide food prices to soar.
Some of the controversial subsidies in the past have included more than $10 billion to Archer-Daniels-Midland since 1980.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[45][neutrality disputed] Critics also speculate that as ethanol is more widely used, changing irrigation practices could greatly increase pressure on water resources. In October 2007, 28 environmental groups decried the Renewable Fuels Standard (RFS), a legislative effort intended to increase ethanol production, and said that the measure will "lead to substantial environmental damage and a system of biofuels production that will not benefit family farmers...will not promote sustainable agriculture and will not mitigate global climate change."[46][47]

[jbsrace1]

Back to the original question.
The Camaro automatically adjusts the AFR to compensate for levels of ethanol.

[Skyblu]

Originally Posted by ShowTime

Worse gas mileage with ethanol.

Ethanol contains less energy per volume then gas.

Plus I'm not sure about the newer engines, but older engines are actually damaged by the ethanol.

Tell me! I hate this crap, my harley runs like crap/bad gas mileage not to mention my old 84 chevy p/u with the holley double pumper that I don't drive that often, it developes fuel leaks jets and floats get all messed up I have to rebuild it again! Then you have small engines like lawn mowers preassure washers that if you leave gas in those go to crap too! Let's do away with the ethanol!!!!

[mrray13]

My 04 Silverado(sacrificed itself for the wife's Cooper) ran great on E85, although I got lean codes..lol.

My 08 Silverado (which sacrificed itself for the Camaro), went from 18.5mph combined on 10% blend, to about 12.2 combined on E85.

The Cooper averaged 28.9 combined on 10%, the Glide averages about 42mpg on 10% blend, the Malibu is averaging 28 and the Camaro is averaging 24.9 combined, all on 10%. Not much choice around here, we in the middle of corn country, lol, everybody has 10%.

[DC-SS]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

You're all missing the point. Who cares about the fuel efficiency? With all due respect, this is a muscle car forum. Our classic 350s never got decent gas mileage, so why do we suddenly consider gasoline based on the efficiency?

The real reason to get ethanol is to keep it American. If you have the option to support your neighbors, then you should take the opportunity to do so. Support your farmers. Buy ethanol.

Umm, I think it is the other way around... The OP asked specifically about performance...

Originally Posted by ssmike

What is the performance affect, if any, when using fuel with 10% ethenol? All the gas in western NY has 10% ethenol so there seems to be no choice. I have an LS3 and I was wondering if the fuel trims from GM account for this mix. Any experts out there?

[volleyfan]

Originally Posted by CWIweldace

Exerpt taken from Wikipedia. Is this how you support your neighbors?

Michael Grunwald reports that one person could be fed for 1 year "on the corn needed to fill an ethanol-fueled SUV".[44] He further reports that though "hyped as an eco-friendly fuel, ethanol increases global warming, destroys forests and inflates food prices." Environmentalists, livestock farmers, and opponents of subsidies say that increased ethanol production won't meet energy goals and may damage the environment, while at the same time causing worldwide food prices to soar. Some of the controversial subsidies in the past have included more than $10 billion to Archer-Daniels-Midland since 1980.[45][neutrality disputed] Critics also speculate that as ethanol is more widely used, changing irrigation practices could greatly increase pressure on water resources. In October 2007, 28 environmental groups decried the Renewable Fuels Standard (RFS), a legislative effort intended to increase ethanol production, and said that the measure will "lead to substantial environmental damage and a system of biofuels production that will not benefit family farmers...will not promote sustainable agriculture and will not mitigate global climate change."[46][47]

More reactionary

I have run E85 in my Tahoe on a regular basis for over 102K miles and it ahs run fantastically!. While it does suffer about a 14% loss in MPG (as advertised), it burns cleaner and mostly supports our corn growers here in the US. When gas prices go above $2.40, I also actually save money using ethanol even with the loss of MPG. While some Brasilian ethanol is used in the US, it's a very small percentage because of the large tariffs the US imposes on imported ethanol to protect our corn growers. While the source you quoted has a lot of bad things to say about ethanol, I can find many more studies citing just the opposite position that ethanol production does not have a significant impact on food costs and production (at current production levels). Also, as already stated in this thread, E10 only actually has about a 1% (or less) impact on MPG. Everyone will form their own opinion, but ethanol is not as bad as some will lead you to believe.

[MontyCarlo]

It's worth noting that we're the only country on Earth that thinks our heavy taxation of Brazilian ethanol is legal. Everybody else calls it a violation of our trade treaties. It probably is - ethanol from sugar is only a fraction of the price of ethanol from corn. The government's blocking access to cheap ethanol in the hopes that we can eventually find a way to make corn-based ethanol cheap enough to be worthwhile without federal subsidies and special protection.