Shno's House of Z

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

You can't get the performance and the quality without the price.

They MUST. Or someone else will...

The Alpha platform is an EXCELLENT place to start. Better is all metrics AND critical acclaim than the Oz-Zeta, and sales results support that. Solid. High quality. Capable-handling vs. BMW-Audi-Benz. And this is the basis for Gen-6...

The Base ATS weighs 34-something. RWD tops out under 3600, with V6 and full boatload of Caddy comfort-convenience. Camaros, without all the gingerbread and filigree, should straddle these numbers. 36-and-change with LT1 and forged rims (same weight a recent BOSS came in at, that we likely wish the Gen-5 Z/28 matched).

De-content some of the Caddy features, for the most basic Camaro (the entry price point Model), and price it in the $20s (competitive with others). Added features = Added price. Performance features = Performance price. Halo capabilities = Halo price.

Value. Quality. Performance. Build it your way. Buy it your way.

As an aside, and a tip to Designers and Product Planners everywhere (eng'rs already know this), Danny Popp is currently prepping a Gen-5 Camaro for some serious "roadwork". Using 18" rims-tires. Better fitment selection with less unsprung weight. 20"ers, and maybe even 19s, are NOT necessary. Go to Tire Rack and see what all is available in 18s...the most popular size used on the ATS...

[2cnd chance]

The problem is even the 19" wheels and tires look awkwardly small on a 5Gen due to its size and wheel-well openings.

[*007]

Well, I hate to opine but I just wanted to say that for the most part I agree with #3 on what the future needs to bring. That said, a solid THANK YOU to all the "old guard" who made the 2010 a reality and even with it's initial lack of power, brought it in 2012. It is likely the new generation of engineers and designers will bring something new -- but historically, the ZL1 and Z/28 type cars like we have RIGHT NOW are generational. If you want one, you better get it while you can. The old guard is being retired or repurposed and with all that is going on it you may look back at these years and wished you had pulled the trigger instead of waiting..... It was many many years of waiting for the excitement the 1969-1970 years had brought to that generation.

That said, IF you are allowed to build it with the same power levels and you can bring the same design significance the 2010 brought... WOW! Watching.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

The problem is even the 19" wheels and tires look awkwardly small on a 5Gen due to its size and wheel-well openings.

Gen-6, moving forward, was the overall context. Still "room" for sufficient braking power, especially with reduced curb weights.

Popp is a demonstrated talent at set-up and execution. "Looks", for this project he's involved in, are secondary...

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by *007

Well, I hate to opine but I just wanted to say that for the most part I agree with #3 on what the future needs to bring. That said, a solid THANK YOU to all the "old guard" who made the 2010 a reality and even with it's initial lack of power, brought it in 2012. It is likely the new generation of engineers and designers will bring something new -- but historically, the ZL1 and Z/28 type cars like we have RIGHT NOW are generational. If you want one, you better get it while you can. The old guard is being retired or repurposed and with all that is going on it you may look back at these years and wished you had pulled the trigger instead of waiting..... It was many many years of waiting for the excitement the 1969-1970 years had brought to that generation.

That said, IF you are allowed to build it with the same power levels and you can bring the same design significance the 2010 brought... WOW! Watching.

As long as a guy named Reuss is involved, the near-term future shines like the sun...

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

They MUST. Or someone else will...

The Alpha platform is an EXCELLENT place to start. Better is all metrics AND critical acclaim than the Oz-Zeta, and sales results support that. Solid. High quality. Capable-handling vs. BMW-Audi-Benz. And this is the basis for Gen-6...

The Base ATS weighs 34-something. RWD tops out under 3600, with V6 and full boatload of Caddy comfort-convenience. Camaros, without all the gingerbread and filigree, should straddle these numbers. 36-and-change with LT1 and forged rims (same weight a recent BOSS came in at, that we likely wish the Gen-5 Z/28 matched).

De-content some of the Caddy features, for the most basic Camaro (the entry price point Model), and price it in the $20s (competitive with others). Added features = Added price. Performance features = Performance price. Halo capabilities = Halo price.

Value. Quality. Performance. Build it your way. Buy it your way.

As an aside, and a tip to Designers and Product Planners everywhere (eng'rs already know this), Danny Popp is currently prepping a Gen-5 Camaro for some serious "roadwork". Using 18" rims-tires. Better fitment selection with less unsprung weight. 20"ers, and maybe even 19s, are NOT necessary. Go to Tire Rack and see what all is available in 18s...the most popular size used on the ATS...

I'm not saying I think the current interior is what the next gen should be like. What I am saying is you can't have an ATS interior and SS performance in a car that doesn't cost significantly more than the current SS. The ATS doesn't have the power the SS does but it starts at a similar price. Do you want a $35k V6? How about a $45k 1SS?

[Bhobbs]

I saw this quote in another article

"This was a big debate," says GM's Adam Dean, the lunatic responsible for that 7:37 time on a partially wet Nordschleife. "Of course, the worry is that you'll have tramlining and a loss of sensitivity. I think we're close to that limit, but we have to run a big tire because we don't benefit from a camber change in cornering with a strut-type front suspension."

and I have to wonder why GM stays with the strut front suspension when they acknowledge it limits the car.

[Janet]

I'm taking notes on your 6th Gen Wish list. I like the fact that WEIGHT is right up there as a most important wish. CAFE standards are rapidly infringing on our wishes. Great materials can cut weight, but they also cost big $$. Make sure you give me thoughts for the Engineers & Designers on what you are willing to pay for and what you will give up. Prioritize your wishes.

Janet

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by Number 3

#3 - Give me the best powertrain combination you have. Don't hold back because of Corvette or Cadillac.

Number 3's #3 is, to my view, the most important point.

He hits all the points directly and logically.

The only thing I would editorialize is that I DO want it to look distinctively Camaro. I love the wide shoulders. It doesn't have to be strictly retro, but it must look different from Audi and BMW and every other aerodynamic bubble.

I want people to know the shape of Camaro without looking at the badge.

You got it right with the GEN5 style wise, out-of-the-ballpark. They got it right with the new 'vette. I hope and believe it is a trend.

No Fear, No Limits, Just Camaro.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Janet

I'm taking notes on your 6th Gen Wish list. I like the fact that WEIGHT is right up there as a most important wish. CAFE standards are rapidly infringing on our wishes. Great materials can cut weight, but they also cost big $$. Make sure you give me thoughts for the Engineers & Designers on what you are willing to pay for and what you will give up. Prioritize your wishes.

Janet

1. Keep weight down but not at the expensive of a solid car or expensive materials.
2. LT1 with a manual
3. Pedals close enough to heel toe effectively
4. Supportive seats or Recaros optional from day 1
5. Make the SS handle well from the start. I hope they learned that from the 5th gen launch
6. I like the 1LE as a package on the SS. Maybe give it some additional aero upgrades if they keep it for the next gen.

That's my wishlist but the must have is

1. Wipe the floor with the next Mustang at each level.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

That all sounds nice until the average person sees the sticker shock. You might be asking a little too much for the Camaro. There is no free lunch. You can't get the performance and the quality without the price.

Not at all. This would easily enable a sub $30,000 base car. What I want is to have outstanding bones that everyone can add on to. WhT I want is at the top end. Think of it as a 3SS.

Plus nothing on my list except the interior costs any more money. The PT exists. And I sm accepting a higher weight that eliminates some of the premium materials in a Cadillac.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Janet

I'm taking notes on your 6th Gen Wish list. I like the fact that WEIGHT is right up there as a most important wish. CAFE standards are rapidly infringing on our wishes. Great materials can cut weight, but they also cost big $$. Make sure you give me thoughts for the Engineers & Designers on what you are willing to pay for and what you will give up. Prioritize your wishes.

Janet

Hey Janet,
I do have thoughts on the 6Gen, however id like to see some upgrades added to the 1LE for 2015 (since not everyone will get a Z/28). Maybe a 2LE package that adds to the 1LE some of the SEMA V8 Concept. ZL1 front brakes, ZL1 side skirts, Z/28 rear diffuser, Z/28 rear spoiler...
Thanks!

[2cnd chance]

This is how the 1LE should look!

[Number 3]

We have to keep in mind if the rumors and near rumors are true, the concrete is setting on the Gen6. If it is a 2016 launching fall of next year then we will see our first Camo cars any time now. That means the styling, packaging and materials are about done. The rest is now refinement. I just hope they got it right and didn't chicken out.

If it is off Alpha then that means all new. If it looks anything retro or anything like a refinement of today's car then they got cold feet and won't get another shot until 2022.

Until now what previous Camaro tried to link itself to an older generation car? Now they've paid homage and time to move on.

Yes American! Yes substantial! And YES recognized as a Camaro. But none of that means it has to look like a previous car or have a sub standard interior for the sake of history.

I don't just hope for a great Camaro.........I am hoping for a truly great car.