[Thor142]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Agree. The third shift wasn't needed. Dropping the prices or shooting for rental car fleet and base trim sales isn't going to change that. Mustang's 32% drop proves that and they appear to have a real capacity problem.

Fact is, GM was able to scale production back 30% to meet the actual demand. Camaro sales were not inflated by "rental car fleet" and "base trim" sales so volume is stable with 90% being retail customers.

As Ford dropped 12% and FCA 10.3%, GM went down 1.7%. Thor asked how is "lower sales numbers working out for them". GM answers "we want to build sustainability". They do appear (to me anyway) to be approaching the market better than they did in the past when they chased volume for volumes sake.

Percentages don't tell the whole story. Mustang was putting up sales numbers that were completely dominating the pony car market. Now the numbers are more in line with Camaro, which due to pricing incentives increased a little. Now using the percentage in decrease of overall sales it looks like Mustang is in trouble, when in reality it's selling about the same as Camaro these last couple months. Which are winter months. It tells the story of a Camaro that's been in trouble since day one and a Mustang that's recently slowed some. Hardly what you are describing. Does sustainability mean consistently poor sales? Camaro didn't catch up until all the 20% off red tag events. Were they still making the huge profits per unit at these prices that they bragged about in the sustainability speech?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Percentages don't tell the whole story. Mustang was putting up sales numbers that were completely dominating the pony car market. Now the numbers are more in line with Camaro, which due to pricing incentives increased a little. Now using the percentage in decrease of overall sales it looks like Mustang is in trouble, when in reality it's selling about the same as Camaro these last couple months. Which are winter months. It tells the story of a Camaro that's been in trouble since day one and a Mustang that's recently slowed some. Hardly what you are describing. Does sustainability mean consistently poor sales? Camaro didn't catch up until all the 20% off red tag events. Were they still making the huge profits per unit at these prices that they bragged about in the sustainability speech?

Mustang sales are now slightly lower than Camaro. Continental sales are less than half ATS/CTS.

Camaro plant now employs ~1,900. Mustang plant employs ~3,250 with rolling plant shutdowns.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Mustang sales are now slightly lower than Camaro. Continental sales are less than half ATS/CTS.

Camaro plant now employs ~1,900. Mustang plant employs ~3,250 with rolling plant shutdowns.

Don't worldwide Mustang sales all get built in the MI plant? Again, I think the US numbers and percentages are only telling half the story.

I'm not sure why this is turning into a Ford Vs GM debate. I'm not brand loyal at all. I don't think the way GM has handled the roll out of the Gen6 is defensible in any way. Regardless of what Ford is doing. They flooded lots with a car that was priced too high (says the market. don't attack me for saying it) added a third shift and then laid them all off after a huge fire sale couldn't clear out inventory surpluses. It's shi**y. Then to add insult to injury for these people they brag about profits per car and it all being part of their sustainability plan.

It stinks.

I'm a realist though. I know it's how corporations operate. I still plan on replacing my car with a Gen 6.

[Donner]

Originally Posted by 8675309Maro

I thought QC issues were resolved there. During the factory tour there was a whole area dedicated to this. It was partitioned off for different needs i.e. electrical, body work etc. Maybe I missunderstood, though. Who else was at the tour that knows what I'm referring to? (Off topic I know; but now I'm curious.) On topic: I hate to see anyone facing job elimination or layoff. Here in the metro Detroit area it's not uncommon. But that doesn't make it hurt any less when there are bills to pay.

You are correct sir. During the tour, I was able to witness a few of the minor things getting repaired right after the cars came out of that box where the engines are run up...

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by suzook

Your theory has been proven wrong. The sales of 6gen have jumped dramatically with the 20% off. Its the price, always has been.

A jump of 800 cars is not dramatic.

[SpeedIsLife]

And yes...ALL Mustangs are produced at Flat Rock. Sales for the Mustang are still very brisk overseas.

[90503]

I've always heard that trucks and suvs have been their best money-makers long before this so-called "high profit" strategy on Camaros was ever discussed....Why would they kill off good SUV sales in order to just move discounted Camaros?...That doesn't sound like a good strategy at all...

Two shifts building Caddies and Camaros?...That's fine with me....If it were separate lines/plants, etc., for Camaro and Caddie, then the future of Camaro might be more in question....If three shifts builds more than the market will bear, at least it doesn't mean the whole model brand will be discontinued....

Trucks and SUVs are selling well, Camaros are still available and being built....all is well, the sky isn't falling....

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

And yes...ALL Mustangs are produced at Flat Rock. Sales for the Mustang are still very brisk overseas.

Sales for Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom

1,311 September 2016

http://left-lane.com/european-car-sa.../ford-mustang/

[Marine Corps]

Originally Posted by Glen e

I agree the third shift was never needed, that's just them getting greedy, and they didn't pull the third shift because anything going on in politics now, these things are not decided in an instant, it's simply because sales aren't there. I worked in production control for BMW in South Carolina for two years , plans are thought out way ahead of time in terms of scheduling and shifts. When lots fill up at the dealership, production goes down. Car compwnies only have one priority; keeping the plants running. Because everything that is produced is sold to a dealer immediately , so the cash just comes back. When dealers choke up, The whole plan stops… In the industry they call it "you can't eat like an elephant and shit like a bird."

So how come you're still not working at BMW?

[shaffe]

Over estimated demand IMO.

GM could have idled the plant earlier in the year and those employees might still have jobs.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Over estimated demand IMO.

GM could have idled the plant earlier in the year and those employees might still have jobs.

I don't think so. The average monthly sales for the Alpha Camaro has been 6,081 per month. Low was 4,969. High was 7,457. Standard deviation 741.

Looks to me that dropping production capacity 30% will get it in line with demand so I wouldn't expect to see the 20% red tags on 17's when the 18's arrive

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I don't think so. The average monthly sales for the Alpha Camaro has been 6,081 per month. Low was 4,969. High was 7,457. Standard deviation 741.

Looks to me that dropping production capacity 30% will get it in line with demand so I wouldn't expect to see the 20% red tags on 17's when the 18's arrive

Sounds like they never needed the 3rd shift in any way. I'm sure they believed they would but clearly they missed their target.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I don't think so. The average monthly sales for the Alpha Camaro has been 6,081 per month. Low was 4,969. High was 7,457. Standard deviation 741.

Looks to me that dropping production capacity 30% will get it in line with demand so I wouldn't expect to see the 20% red tags on 17's when the 18's arrive

Originally Posted by Raven87

Sounds like they never needed the 3rd shift in any way. I'm sure they believed they would but clearly they missed their target.

Which then brings me to my original point, that they over estimated demand.

[Glen e]

Originally Posted by Marine Corps

So how come you're still not working at BMW?

I retired after 26 years, smart ass.