A post I was hoping to not have to make (GM blocks L3 engine warranty repair)

[Superman09]

Short version. My car lost oil pressure upon start up sitting in my driveway. After a two week battle with the dealer and GM they blamed my catch can and blocked my warranty giving me no explanation on how the catch can caused any failure and now have walked away from an 11 month old car with 11423 miles on it. Keep reading for the long detailed version

See post #114 for petition






Tuesday (4-19-16) I drove my son to school and my daughter to her riding lesson at approximately 8:30 in the morning. After sitting through my daughters riding lesson we drove home at approximately 9:30. We ate breakfast and I gathered some paperwork I needed to turn in at work. At approximately 9:45-10am I went to leave to head to work. When I started my car that I had left sitting in the sun in the driveway it immediately starting dinging and the warning “no oil pressure shut down engine” came up and I immediately shut the engine off. I figured it was a loose sensor, so I popped the hood and checked, but everything was still connected and tight. I checked the oil level and it was full. I turned the oil filter back slightly and oil immediately poured out of it. The car had 11422 miles on it, and had its oil changed at approximately 2800 miles and again at approximately 8900 miles. I called OnStar and advised them of the problem and requested that it get towed to a dealership. I requested Sterling Auto Group as they were the closest, and I also knew they were an elite dealer. I called and let the service advisor Ross Hines know that the vehicle was coming and also that it had no oil pressure. The car was towed from my house at approximately 12:15pm. Tuesday afternoon I received a call from Ross Hines asking about the modifications done to my vehicle, and I advised him that the only mechanical modifications were a cold air intake and an oil separator catch can. The oil separator catch can sits in line with the PCV system, allowing the oil to condense out of the return air to try and help prevent “gunk” build up on the valves. It functions just like the one provided by GM with the 1LE Camaros, just in a different spot in the line.
Wednesday morning I receive a call from Ross Hines stating that the car did in fact have no oil pressure, was well as it now had an unknown engine noise. The engine was not making any abnormal noise when it was last in my possession. Ross Hines states that his tech has put a call in to the Technical Assistance Center to inquire about how to proceed, and has also sent in pictures of the engine. Ross Hines tells me he will call me back when he knows more. Ross Hines calls a short time later and says that his tech got the go ahead from TAC to tear the motor apart and find the point of failure. I asked about a loaner vehicle as the Camaro is my daily driver, and I am told to come up to the dealership and they will set me up with a loaner. Approximately 2 hours later I am headed to the dealership when I get another call from Ross Hines. Ross Hines tells me that the TAC has called his tech back and said to stop all work that something was seen in the pictures sent to them, and they were placing a block on my warranty. I arrive at the dealership and I am told that something in the pictures is causing TAC to void my warranty. Ross Hines is unable to tell me what the item is; only that TAC is blocking my warranty. I meet with the Fixed Operations Director James Berthold I explain to him what the catch can does, and that it does not affect the oil system at all, as even the oil that is collected in the catch can would be burned up if the catch can were not there. James Berthold tells me that he is not sure why the block has been placed on my warranty, and that he was not given any information. James Berthold tells me that the TAC would not tell him anything as he was not the owner of the vehicle. James Berthold tells me that there is nothing he can do since he does not own the vehicle, and it is now between me and GM. I am given the TAC number 8-1942399957 and told to call customer care and speak with them about that number. Both Ross Hines and James Berthold state that they would love nothing more to be putting a new engine in my car, but that their hands are tied by the warranty block.

I call customer care and Speak with a senior advisor named Aria. Aria tells me that the TAC number I was given is in essence between the TAC and the dealership, and there is nothing that she can do with the number. I am given case number 8-1944326211. I explain everything to Aria, and she tells me she will get in touch with the dealership and see what she can do, and to expect a call back from her within the next few days. I wait until Friday morning, and after not hearing anything I call the dealership. Ross Hines says that they have not heard anything from either customer care or the TAC. I am told that my warranty is still blocked, and they still do not know what the part is that is causing the block or what has failed in the engine. I am told to continue to talk with customer care. I call customer care back Friday afternoon and speak with a different senior adviser after another failed attempt to contact Aria. The new advisor tells me that 2 emails have been sent to the dealer, but that a reply has not been received. The new advisor tells me that one email was sent on 4-20-16 at approximately 3pm, and a second sent 4-22-16 at approximately 10am. The new advisor tells me that until customer care hears back from the dealership there is little she can do. I am told that the emails were sent to James Berthold and Steven Nolet.

Saturday (4-23-16) morning I go back up to the dealership and speak with Steven Nolet who is the General Manager of the dealership. I explain to him what is going on, and that I need a loaner vehicle as I am stuck without transportation. Steven Nolet says that he had not received an email from customer care, and that James Berthold was not in the office. Steven Nolet calls James Berthold and leaves him a message to call him back. Steven Nolet arranges for me to be in a rent car, and finds the email that was sent to him by customer service, and says that the email was in his trash folder. Later Saturday afternoon Steven Nolet calls and says that he spoke with James Berthold and that James Berthold has told me where we stand. I tell Steven Nolet that all James has told me is that he doesn’t know and I need to talk with GM. I schedule with Steven Nolet to have a meeting with James Berthold Monday (4-25-16) to do a conference call with GM to figure out what is going on.

Monday morning at 9am I meet with James Berthold and he tells me that he has heard 0 from GM. He said that he sent an email reply to Customer Care Friday, telling them what TAC told him to do, but that he had not yet heard back from them. James Berthold also said that he had sent an email to his district service manager out of Dallas, Bill Hepburn. James Berthold said he apprised Bill Hepburn of the situation and of what TAC said to do. James Berthold told me that Bill Hepburn stated that if TAC said not to do anything, to listen to TAC and not do anything else until you hear from somebody at GM telling you to do something different. I asked James Berthold if there was any way that we could call and talk to somebody at GM about what was going. I told James Berthold that Steven Nolet said I would have a conference call and get things figured out. James Berthold said that he normally would call his GM rep, but that the rep was out of town that day at meetings in Detroit and unable to answer the phone. I asked to conference call with customer care, and James Berthold made the phone call to customer care. My service advisor with customer care was not available, and James Berthold left her a message to call him back. James Berthold told me that he had not even sent the computer calibrations in to TAC as they had said stop before he got a chance to send them in. James Berthold said that he did not believe it was TAC that made the call to stop; he said that he believed it was probably brand engineering that made the call to stop. James Berthold made another phone call to customer service to speak with a different senior advisor, and we spoke with James. James with customer care said that when he looked at the TAC case the only explanation for the warranty block was just “modifications”. James with customer care said that he was unsure of what the problem was as the situation appeared to be between TAC and the dealership. James Berthold said that Sterling Auto Group was an elite dealer and got TAC 2, and he had been unable to get an answer even from them. James with customer care said that he would notify the senior advisor about what was going on and that James Berthold had involved the DMA, and see what they could get done from there. James with customer service confirmed that James Berthold had sent an email to Aria, but did not say when the email was sent.

James Berthold made a phone call to TAC on his cell phone, and said that the engineer that made the call to stop the work, Scott Williams, did not answer and that his voicemail was full. James Berthold then sent Scott Williams an email. I asked James Berthold if he had spoken with the DMA, and he advised that he had spoken with him on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I asked if we could call and speak with the DMA, and James Berthold said that it would be faster and easier to send him a text message. James Berthold sent a text message to the DMA. James Berthold made another phone call to TAC, and spoke on the phone with somebody, but he was on his cell phone, and I was only able to hear one side of the conversation. James Berthold spoke with a level 2 TAC advisor, and advised him of what was going on. James Berthold asked me what modifications were on the engine and I told him it was the cold air intake and the oil separator catch can. James Berthold passed that on to the person he was speaking on the phone with. I asked to be placed on speaker phone with the TAC advisor, and James Berthold refused. The person James Berthold spoke with on the phone was named Allan Quackenbush. Allan Quackenbush advised James Berthold that what he gathered from the TAC notes was that the oil separator catch can was the problem. James Berthold said that Allan Quackenbush did not say the oil separator catch can was named specifically in the notes, but that was the idea of the notes. James Berthold explained to me that due to the fact that he was an elite dealer he was not even allowed to let other non-elite dealers speak with level 2 TAC let alone a customer. James Berthold said that his DMA was involved, and would be the person to get the next answer. I asked if the DMA would have somebody come and look at the car rather than just pictures, and James Berthold said he doubted that anybody would be sent to physically inspect the vehicle. James Berthold said that what would likely happen is that GM would stick with the original story and make me sue them. I again explained how the oil separator catch can worked, and that the oil pump was a known common failure in the LS3, and James Berthold said that he was unsure why the catch can would be blamed then. I request to take a look at my car, and James Berthold escorted me out into the service bay. The technician Aubrey George said that he was never asked about the oil level or anything else mechanical with the vehicle. Aubrey George stated that TAC didn’t ask for anything. I checked the odometer on the vehicle, and observed that the odometer now showed 11423 miles rather than the 11422 it had when it left my house on the tow truck. I left the dealership at approximately 10:10am still with no answer to what the problem was or what the failure was. James Berthold advised that the DMA would get back to him later that day and was not the type to sit on things. James Berthold said that the situation was odd to him to as TAC had not asked any of the normal questions, and was basing their decision off of the pictures that had been sent. James Berthold said that he would love for GM to call him and tell him to put a new $12,000 dollar engine in the car.

At approximately 10:58am James Berthold called me to let me know that the DMA had called him, and was waiting on a response from the Brand Quality Manager, and that the answer should come later that afternoon. At approximately 12:14pm James Berthold let me know that the Brand Quality Manager said the oil separator catch can would make the engine starve for oil under certain circumstances and there for the warranty was blocked. At approximately 3:00pm I asked James Berthold if he could ask the DMA about if I returned my vehicle to stock form and restore the warranty. I advised James Berthold that I had all of the parts necessary to return it to stock, and James Berthold said that he would put in that request. I also called customer service and spoke with another different senior advisor, as Aria was still not available and had yet to returned any calls, and put in a request to return my vehicle to stock form to allow the warranty repair to take place. On Tuesday (4-26-16) at approximately 10:14am James Berthold called me to let me know that the DMA advised that returning to factory stock would not allow for the repair to be done in this situation. James Berthold told me that I was the 4th case GM knew of that an oil separator catch can was a problem.

On Thursday (4-28-16) I again called customer care and requested that the DMA have the district senior technician come from Houston to look at my car as the entire process had been based on pictures. On Monday (5-2-16) I call customer care and speak with a different senior advisor and ask for an update. I am told that there was no update but that the request had been put in, and that I was scheduled for a call back on 5-4-16. I call the dealership, and James Berthold tells me that he has received another call from his DMA saying that the warranty is going to remain blocked and that there is nothing else to be done. I arrange for a tow truck to pick up my car and bring it back to my house on 5-3-16. The tow truck drops off my car at my house, complete with a box of parts in the trunk. On 5-4-16 I receive a call from Aria with customer care and am told that the DMA has said “the catch can caused the failure PERIOD”. Aria advised that the DMA said the senior technician would not be coming out, and that there was nothing else they would consider, and that the warranty would remain blocked.

So here I sit with a less than year old car with 11423 miles on it and a box of parts. Yes I could take it to court, but have been assured that I would waste more time and money than it is likely worth, or would wait possibly years for a resolution with a non-running car sitting in my garage. My Camaro is my main form of transportation, and it’s putting a serious strain on life not having it working.

[Homeless Man]

Strong post

[wrtowman]

You have been bamboozled. Good luck.

[Welker2]

Wow! Sorry to hear this & hope you get it resolved somehow. Unfortunately, if they are claiming the catch can could have been the cause & the reason for not honoring the warranty, I doubt changing it back to stock after the failure will change that, especially since they have pictures. Your best and possibly only recourse is to somehow prove the catch can wasn't the cause of the failure.

Best of luck to you in getting this resolved

[ssrs2lt]

Wow I've got to say I've always thought read and seen catch cans were ok..

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

This should serve as a cautionary tale that despite whatever that Magnuson-Moss thing says, GM can do whatever they want and there is very little you can do about it.

[ghosted]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

This should serve as a cautionary tale that despite whatever that Magnuson-Moss thing says, GM can do whatever they want and there is very little you can do about it.

Yes, initially, but the burden of proof falls on GM to prove the relation between catch can and failure.

[68rssscamaro]

Exactly what I was just about to say...How do they determine the failure was caused by the catch can?

[1Coopgt]

What's the short version of the original post . That was a wall of words or an essay which I don't have time to read .

[Cldgin2]

If it was the catch can, wouldn't it have caused oil to squirt all over the engine bay, I mean that is what it would take to destroy and engine... I mean, isn't it physically impossible for the catch can to block oil from getting to the engine? and if it did as I've said it would make one hell of a mess

[Chevy Fanatic]

Originally Posted by ghosted

Yes, initially, but the burden of proof falls on GM to prove the relation between catch can and failure.

True, GM needs to prove the catch can is the root cause of the failure. In no way is the catch can EVER going to cause the engine to starve for oil. Oil pump picks up oil from the pan and distributes it to internal components. Catch can deals with oil vapors / blow-by. Have you contacted the GM rep on this site?

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by ghosted

Yes, initially, but the burden of proof falls on GM to prove the relation between catch can and failure.

OK, so you have to go hire an attorney... which is already going to cost more than the engine repair.

Then you have to sit and wait for however long it would take to get the case litigated... which could be years if GM wanted it to be.

So while technically there is something you could do about it, from a practical standpoint there is not.

[jasco]

Check and see if you have mechanical breakdown coverage through you auto insurance. When I bought my 07 Silverado Geico added it to my policy without even notifying me about it. I never had to use it but it's something you may look into.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by 1Coopgt

What's the short version of the original post . That was a wall of words or an essay which I don't have time to read .

Guy had the oil pump fail and GM is blaming the catch can so won't cover it under warranty.