A post I was hoping to not have to make (GM blocks L3 engine warranty repair)

[Camaro Dude]

Originally Posted by Silver14

Lol, I thought the same thing.

Why is the focus of the threads/petition the OP modifying his car with a catch can, CAI, and who knows what else instead of the known oil pump issues? The whole thing seems like a reminder of why GM should NOT cover it instead of the other way around.

Ask anyone who's not a car enthusiast if they think a dealer or manufacturer will warranty a vehicle that has been modified - most will say no.

Check foums for various makes/models and almost all recommend demodding before going to the dealer.

..I'm wit you bro on modified..What you sayin' iz, don't paint (modify) the custom plastic interior bits like the door panels, steering wheel bezel, centre console and gauge bezels, because the off-gassing from the paint fumes, will foul/trick the interior cabin AC/Heating sensor, thus eventually destroying the AC Compressor!

This is but ONE, out of many analogies, and case scenarios, that may be used, to paint the the picture of a warranty claim being denied, which is right on par on stupidity, and ,, as the catch can destroying an oil pump, real life case scenario. I can go on and on, and I'm sure there are even better analogies, to illustrate the level of extreme sided stupidity, on the matter at hand here.

But yeah, sure, I can see your point.

Focusing only on the oil pump issue without diversions though, as you mentioned if I understood correctly, is yet an other entirely different topic, that is bound to create heated debates. We have seen them in the past, going back to 2-3 years ago on here even. Some of the well known performance shops, have vouched in, that these oil pump failures are very rare, and some from their own hands on experience and personal observations, none-existent.


*On a side note, unless I missed it in these 40 pages or so, it would of been nice to see Chevrolet Customer Service to chime into this thread. They do it in other ones, why not this one?

[RAMTechRob]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

No, that's the problem. The OP had the car towed to the nearest GM dealership, which was a GMC/Cadillac dealership. There's a good chance that they had zero familiarity with the LS3 engine, much less a catch can. If the car was taken to a Chevrolet dealership this would've probably been a non issue.

Ding ding ding. You are the winner. I think a Chevy dealer would have done the right thing.

[motorhead]

BBB is a joke. They also have no authority to do anything.

Still haven't seen anyone post if the oil pump was the definitive failure or an explanation as to how a catch can cqn cause a loss of oil pressure.

[BlackinBlack]

Wow that really sucks but is the reality.

GM provides a warranty on the car as it is designed. So many people feel that the GM design is lacking and needs improvement but the reality is you get a warranty on that setup. A setup that took years to design I might add.

As modders we make a choice to change things. Some are because we are told that those changes are to correct flaws and others are performance mods.

I personally feel the catch can is a total BS product with little value at a high price. It goes nicely with some copper socks and a few "power crystals". Funny they were sold to the LSx cars as a MUST HAVE when I bought my LS3 Camaro and also my LSA ZL1. Now I have a DI car and the posts on the corvette forums says they were not needed on LSx due to injector port spray. Catch cans DO make more sense on a DI car but still think it is crap. I will stick with my 5 year 60K warranty over a CC any day. For me I don't keep my cars longer than 4 years anyway. The car has issues I will take it to the dealer for repair..... under warranty.

The moral of this story is drive a stock GM car if you expect to have a warranty.

As for this guy. I would try to negotiate a repair. Or pull the car from the dealership and have a aftermarket builder put a new motor in as I bet you can get better cheaper. (Cam upgrade time?) Also maybe someone in the forum has a spare motor? I know some guys have pulled the stock engine for a stronger block on some of the high HP builds.

Again sorry for the loss and good luck.

[Moto-Mojo]

This has circled the track, what, about 11 times now? Got more miles than the OP's OE, modded motor! Ok, sorry. You just can't roll over for a total PT warranty denial when the offending part is only a distant cousin, once removed, to the true failure. If every warranty were just willy-nilly-up-to-the-whim-of-the-service-mgr's-interpretation, at every dealer, what good is a written GM PT warranty?

I'll agree somewhat that this horse may have left the barn and the OP's battle has been lost but the overall war is worth the fight.

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by BlackinBlack

Wow that really sucks but is the reality.

GM provides a warranty on the car as it is designed. So many people feel that the GM design is lacking and needs improvement but the reality is you get a warranty on that setup. A setup that took years to design I might add.

As modders we make a choice to change things. Some are because we are told that those changes are to correct flaws and others are performance mods.

I personally feel the catch can is a total BS product with little value at a high price. It goes nicely with some copper socks and a few "power crystals". Funny they were sold to the LSx cars as a MUST HAVE when I bought my LS3 Camaro and also my LSA ZL1. Now I have a DI car and the posts on the corvette forums says they were not needed on LSx due to injector port spray. Catch cans DO make more sense on a DI car but still think it is crap. I will stick with my 5 year 60K warranty over a CC any day. For me I don't keep my cars longer than 4 years anyway. The car has issues I will take it to the dealer for repair..... under warranty.

The moral of this story is drive a stock GM car if you expect to have a warranty.

As for this guy. I would try to negotiate a repair. Or pull the car from the dealership and have a aftermarket builder put a new motor in as I bet you can get better cheaper. (Cam upgrade time?) Also maybe someone in the forum has a spare motor? I know some guys have pulled the stock engine for a stronger block on some of the high HP builds.

Again sorry for the loss and good luck.

Back when i had my camaro, people always (probably still do) talked about catch cans. Threads on threads about how important it was. while my local performance shop was doing my cam install i mentioned catch cans. They really didn't think it was needed.

Now with the DI engine, we have threads on threads how important it is to run a catch can. I can understand the logic better on a DI engine because you want to stop the carbon on the back on the valves. Now that i learned about catch cans, and carbon build up. I think its kind of a waste to install a catch can on a under warranty port injection engine. really kind of sad, the OP got screwed for something he probably didnt even need. his engine proabably would have ran fine his entire ownership without one. then once a problem happens (oil pump failure) GM covers you.

I also heard that in about 4-5 years they are going to pretty much solve this problem with new tech. (this is talked about on the corvette forums). But you can count on once the carbon build up problem is solved we WILL have another type of problem to deal with. Always some kind of weak point with engines. Thats why its best to just buy the best car you can afford, enjoy it with a warranty. worry about bigger stuff in life.


I plan on not installing a catch can on my vette either.

[Dimitrim]

If you do not use a catch can on your brand new direct injection Corvette, from all of the carbon build up on top of the pistons and intake valves, you will have an incredible loss of horsepower and torque in 20,000 miles.

WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO DRIVE AN UNDERPOWERED CORVETTE?

MAYBE YOU CAN'T HANDLE ALL THAT POWER?

[Camaro Dude]

Originally Posted by mikeSS

Back when i had my camaro, people always (probably still do) talked about catch cans. Threads on threads about how important it was. while my local performance shop was doing my cam install i mentioned catch cans. They really didn't think it was needed.

Now with the DI engine, we have threads on threads how important it is to run a catch can. I can understand the logic better on a DI engine because you want to stop the carbon on the back on the valves. Now that i learned about catch cans, and carbon build up. I think its kind of a waste to install a catch can on a under warranty port injection engine. really kind of sad, the OP got screwed for something he probably didnt even need. his engine proabably would have ran fine his entire ownership without one. then once a problem happens (oil pump failure) GM covers you.

I also heard that in about 4-5 years they are going to pretty much solve this problem with new tech. (this is talked about on the corvette forums). But you can count on once the carbon build up problem is solved we WILL have another type of problem to deal with. Always some kind of weak point with engines. Thats why its best to just buy the best car you can afford, enjoy it with a warranty. worry about bigger stuff in life.


I plan on not installing a catch can on my vette either.

....during the warranty period you mean, Right? Regarding last sentence...

Curious hea...What will you be doing after the warranty period ends? Keeping it for fifteen...twenty years say? Hmm? ��

Obviously, if you are trading in the lease after 4-5, disregard the question.

[Tajefe Couple]

Originally Posted by Dimitrim

If you do not use a catch can on your brand new direct injection Corvette, from all of the carbon build up on top of the pistons and intake valves, you will have an incredible loss of horsepower and torque in 20,000 miles.

WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO DRIVE AN UNDERPOWERED CORVETTE?

MAYBE YOU CAN'T HANDLE ALL THAT POWER?

Not defending GM I stood up for our rights as well. However you can just have the valves cleaned regularly to maintain power. I think GM now recommends valve cleaning on DI engines like other services such as oil changes, transmission or radiator flush, etc.. Just saying better watch it if you don't have them cleaned and its part pf your lease or in the new warranties as scheduled maintenance does GM cover that, or is it like not having an oil change if the motor goes?
Doesn't GM get to define scheduled vehicle maintenance as well? Just saying.
Suppose if we continue to feed the beast we have to be prepared for the sacrifices.
Oh mighty GM master let thee do thy bidding

[BlackinBlack]

Originally Posted by tajefe

I think GM now recommends valve cleaning on DI engines ...

I just bought my first DI car. It was NOT mentioned at time of purchase. Also I read the manual of every new car I buy. (Yes I know that is a strange thing to do.) Again not in the owners manual. As GM has built DI cars for quite a few years you would think it would be in the manual if required.

BTW GM built 37,288 corvettes in 2014 with 100% having DI engines and in 2015 it was 34,240 with 100% having DI engines.

In addition Camaro V6 cars have been DI for many years (2009) and a huge number of other GM cars had this same DI motor.

If carbon build up was a major issue in the GM design you would think there would be massive news about it by now. Many of these cars ARE 4 - 5 years old. If it was a massive issue you would think it would make more news than in a few forum threads started by people who sell catch cans for a living.

GM has sold hundreds of thousands of DI motors today. Massive power loss or failures would make the news by now and has not.

I guess time will tell if us no catch-can fools will come to regret not installing one.

Also I will leave this here.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...-engines-.html

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...ines/index.htm

http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver-...-adopters.html

It is as easy to find examples of people saying DI motors as a whole will be fine as designed. Same as a finding examples of the opposite.

Personally I will do what it takes to keep mine under warranty. My motor blows up due to deposits I would rather have GM replace the motor for free. Will any catch can manufacture cover my engine if it fails? Everyone knows the answer to that.

[Stormcloak]

nm

[Moto-Mojo]

I'm not sure I completely understand the issue. Is the carbon buildup more of the cause and effect of fuel NOT being sprayed over the valves or PCV dirty oil and carbon bits through the intake or both? It would seem that a catch-can could only do so much. It can't make up for the DI spray vs a throttle body cleanse can it?

[Superman09]

After many phone calls and lots of waiting GM has won this battle. I still have not been told what failed only that my engine was modified and that it will not be fixed.

While I could continue fighting and take it to court, and I have looked into that option, it would take a serious amount of money and a long time for an outcome that very well may be the same.

I know some will want me to keep fighting, but at some point every battle has to end and for me this is it. My back up truck is an IH Scout II that is in need of work, and last week nearly left me stranded when it wouldn't start for a still unknown reason.

Sent from my campfire using smoke signals

[terry_b]

That really sucks man. I feel for you... I know I'm super paranoid now every time I start mine.

I know you've likely reached a limit, and as far as GM is concerned there may not be any recourse... But I still feel that the dealership did not handle this correctly, and wronged you with how they treated the tear-down and subsequently returned you a pile of parts instead of a whole car (even if it wasn't fixed, they owed you that much at least).

I know you probably want to get back on the road and I feel for you... I only wish it turned out differently.