Who does their own tuning? How much timing added for E85?

[eLeSthree]

I threw a flex fuel kit on my V right when I picked it up, and worked my way up to about +5 degrees in the lower portion of the Flex Fuel table. Since E85 isnt going to Knock when you pass max power/torque, I left it at that. Total timing with E78 comes in at 22.5-23 degrees depending on boost (15-16psi)

Car made 620/650 with bolt ons, hx and 2.38. Now I'm reading more on the V forums I see that a lot of LSA guys run up near 28 degrees with similar mods.
Just looking to compare to see if I may possibly be leaving some power on the table.

Taking a friends car back to the dyno, so I might throw the V on and hit it with 2-3 more degrees,

How much timing do you guys run on E85?

[tartagliazl1]

I wish i could. Would save so much time and money. I did look into taking the tuning academy class in Tampa

[FasNuf]

I haven't had mine on the dyno since adding E, but I'm at a total of 27* up top.
It was just a WAG based on other tunes I've looked at. Seems to work well.
PM me your email and I'll send you my tune. (HP Tuners)

[eLeSthree]

Originally Posted by tartagliazl1

I wish i could. Would save so much time and money. I did look into taking the tuning academy class in Tampa

Ha, yea or cost you more! I know just enough to be dangerous!

Originally Posted by FasNuf

I haven't had mine on the dyno since adding E, but I'm at a total of 27* up top.
It was just a WAG based on other tunes I've looked at. Seems to work well.
PM me your email and I'll send you my tune. (HP Tuners)

Thanks man, I appreciate it. PM sent. 27 seems to be in the range of normal.

[silversleeper]

Do you care to describe which table you are looking at.
I went back to my tables and e.g. there is one what has maf included with rpm and timing so not like a simple timing answer.
Is there e.g. one line of that that a person might refer to and give you an idea where we are at?

[eLeSthree]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

Do you care to describe which table you are looking at.
I went back to my tables and e.g. there is one what has MAP included with rpm and timing so not like a simple timing answer.
Is there e.g. one line of that that a person might refer to and give you an idea where we are at?

I think you are looking at the Main spark table (high octane). I'm referring to the additional timing supplied when running E85. You can find that info located:

Engine/Spark/Flex Fuel. Bottom line

Thanks

[JB'sZL1]

I didn't do my own tune, and I have so much power on corn I rarely use it (with 17" MT's), but mined was advanced approximately 8 degrees. When I get back to running my Z (still snow on the ground) I could check my gauges after I install some corn.

[silversleeper]

yeah, thanks I forgot where that was.
7 up to 6grand, then 8

[DrkPhx]

What is your total advance at WOT with E85? There really isn't a set amount, each car is different based on the mods. Also depends on how it was tuned for base fuel (91 vs 93 octane for example). Stock timing at WOT is pretty high so adding 7-8 degrees is a lot. Some drop the base timing down for non E premium but add a lot for E85. I made 648 rwhp with a small cam and bolt ons on 93 but I had to drop the total advance because of KR. Added TF heads with E85 and was able pick it back up and then some. Took a combo of dyno time and street driving to get it right.

[silversleeper]

8* is a lot yes. That's what's good about e85 especially with forced induction and only 91octane avail besides race gas$$.
If I'm not mistaken the idea of the flex sensor and computer is that does great at adjusting between partial mix of ethanol in the tables so it doesn't throw that whole 8* at it if e.g. its running e40 because of winter blends or what I threw in the tank mixing the pump e85 and my 91 that was already in there.


I did check sometimes on my run logs and I'm not getting KR. My knock sensor is also not f'd with in the tune to ignore knock either which is important to me. Trying not to knock holes in the pistons. I think I'm around 23* total, but I forget it's been a few years since I looked at it. There is a point of diminishing returns where you're pushing backwards on the piston too much and undue stress vs gains. Something to think about.


Edit: found a short article on timing https://www.autospeed.com/cms/a_1091...populararticle
it's not so educational to those who have messed with their own tunes but does provide an overview.

[Triple5even813]

I run 19 degrees of timing at the top of the high octane table and use the alcohol adder table to add 2-8 degrees depending on composition %.

[eLeSthree]

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

What is your total advance at WOT with E85? There really isn't a set amount, each car is different based on the mods. Also depends on how it was tuned for base fuel (91 vs 93 octane for example). Stock timing at WOT is pretty high so adding 7-8 degrees is a lot. Some drop the base timing down for non E premium but add a lot for E85. I made 648 rwhp with a small cam and bolt ons on 93 but I had to drop the total advance because of KR. Added TF heads with E85 and was able pick it back up and then some. Took a combo of dyno time and street driving to get it right.

Main spark table gives me about 18*s, so it has already been dialed back since the car had a pulley and bolt ons. I've added a max of 5.5* to the FF table so I'm getting a total of 22.5-23* depending on boost and ethanol content.

I actually just added another degree to the FF table this week and I did notice a little more pep in the step, so I left it. Now seeing max timing at 24 degrees. Leaving it there.

Originally Posted by Triple5even813

I run 19 degrees of timing at the top of the high octane table and use the alcohol adder table to add 2-8 degrees depending on composition %.

I appreciate the direct answer. FYI, the alcohol adder table only modifies spark in PE or COT modes. The Flex Fuel table could help make the car drive smoother and even save you some gas. Ethanol wants less timing at light loads. I get 19mpg on E75 on the highway.

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...l-timing-wrong

[SSummit]

I tune my own and I am running 24-25 degrees total advance on E80 at 15-16psi. This was from research, not a dyno proven number but works well. What I would recommend is to drop your rev limit, on the stock cam you are making peak power at 6000rpm, it is nice to go a bit over so when you shift you stay in the power, but the power is so flat you really aren't gaining much by going 900rpm over as your power is dropping off rapidly up there too. Spun bearings seem to be most common failure on these engines and the main culprit for that is likely high rpm, not to mention your stock valvetrain isn't going to like 6900rpm. I think you could drop it to 6400rpm with no performance loss and far more safety.

[eLeSthree]

Originally Posted by SSummit

I tune my own and I am running 24-25 degrees total advance on E80 at 15-16psi. This was from research, not a dyno proven number but works well. What I would recommend is to drop your rev limit, on the stock cam you are making peak power at 6000rpm, it is nice to go a bit over so when you shift you stay in the power, but the power is so flat you really aren't gaining much by going 900rpm over as your power is dropping off rapidly up there too. Spun bearings seem to be most common failure on these engines and the main culprit for that is likely high rpm, not to mention your stock valvetrain isn't going to like 6900rpm. I think you could drop it to 6400rpm with no performance loss and far more safety.

Thanks for the input. I think the car acts differently on the dyno than on the street. My shift points are determined by speed. 2-3 is set to 60mph, 3-4 is 99mph, and 4-5 is 140mph. That's with the trans in performance mode.

On the street it usually shifts at 6600. There is a noticeable improvement in performance over regular trans mode where it shifts earlier.

Justin White did a good job on this trans tune. I love it. Actually, I loved it. Just sold the V....