Electric Vehicles

[0stones0]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

Since Hybrids were mentioned that would actually work better for me in the future since I live in an apartment complex with no way to charge it. I honestly think non plug in and plug in hybrids are probably the best solution. I heard recently that hybrid sales were on the rise big time. For my Daily Driver as long as I don't have to plug it in I would take it and have the Camaro as a fun car still.

This has been the sensible way to go from the getgo.

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by 0stones0

This has been the sensible way to go from the getgo.

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense to have an EV in a city that has 114 chargers that are completely FREE to refill or hundreds of other places to charge. I don't have time to sit and watch Netflix or read emails or surf the forums while I'm recharging because, because,...

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

Since Hybrids were mentioned that would actually work better for me in the future since I live in an apartment complex with no way to charge it. I honestly think non plug in and plug in hybrids are probably the best solution. I heard recently that hybrid sales were on the rise big time. For my Daily Driver as long as I don't have to plug it in I would take it and have the Camaro as a fun car still.

As with most things automotive, there are additional angles to this. A lot of people are buying hybrids not because they said “Hmmm…I need a new car and I need to choose between a hybrid and a BEV”. Where most of the increase in hybrid is coming from is the fact that Toyota has made hybrid standard equipment on several of their highest selling models and optional at low cost for many others. So instead of deciding they want a hybrid they are deciding they want a Camry and Camry is now 100% hybrid. Smart move by Toyota, no doubt, but that’s the driving force behind the increase in hybrid volume. People are buying Toyotas which just happen to be hybrids.

Toyotas that are 100% hybrid:

• Prius
• Camry
• Crown (replaces Avalon)
• Crown SUV (replaces Venza)
• Sienna

Hybrid is a low cost option on everything else Toyota sells in the US except Supra and GR86.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense to have an EV in a city that has 114 chargers that are completely FREE to refill or hundreds of other places to charge. I don't have time to sit and watch Netflix or read emails or surf the forums while I'm recharging because, because,...

...because because....uh...because I don't want to sit somewhere and charge for 30 - mins to an hour when I could be doing ANYTHING ELSE.

Ugh.

Hybrids make the most sense. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have EVs as well. There's room for both.

Hybrids:
- Still do vast majority of driving without burning any gas
- Still allow you to travel long distances without range anxiety, planning a potentially out of the way stop at a recharger, and when you get there wondering if said charger will work correctly or if the charging spots are all taken
- Can cost less than a full EV with a huge battery (not in all cases but definitely in some)
- Weighs less than a full EV with a huge battery
- Reduces resources needed for producing EVs with a huge battery
- Reduces the need for spending stupid amounts of money on infrastructure to build so many charging stations
- Still can work for people that don't own their own home or have access to charging while at their home...mild hybrid possibly better for these people, but even a plug in hybrid still better for them than full EV
- Still works for work vehicles and for towing


I'll stop there...I came up with that list without even having to stop and think about it. Might be a few more if I took the time to think about it.

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

...because because....uh...because I don't want to sit somewhere and charge for 30 - mins to an hour when I could be doing ANYTHING ELSE.
I'll stop there...I came up with that list without even having to stop and think about it. Might be a few more if I took the time to think about it.

That's what some people will tell you. If you talk to a real Tesla owner they can explain some things to you.
One is they FAST charge on the superchargers. So I've seen up to 919mph is what they call it. In other words when I navigate to a supercharger it preheats my battery so it charges faster and when it's low I'm getting that many miles of range per hour of charge! It slows down as it gets "fuller". So the smart person, unless they have a long trip ahead and don't want to stop, just charges from low to like "3/4 tank". Who can't spare 15minutes or 20minutes in a comfortable seat and climate controlled car. You keep it running while charging unlike standing at the pump.
For $100 a year I get LTE wifi to the car and can watch streaming things on the huge "tablet" with no batteries or things to fumble with. It has games or youtube and regular internet also on it. It's a great time to relax and call friends or family in peace and quiet while you charge. I prefer to charge at night at home but have been doing Tesla Supercharging because they gave it to me FREE for 6mo! The charger is right in front of a Best Buy and Target so sometimes I go in there shopping if I don't want to use the smartphone or "tablet" or just relax. Actual EV ownership isn't like the clickbaits on youtube or Yahoo news or tv news.

I could come up with a list why my credit card is maxed out or bank account is empty or I forever rent instead of buying without even thinking about it, or I could think about ways to save money so those things are not applicable to me.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

...because because....uh...because I don't want to sit somewhere and charge for 30 - mins to an hour when I could be doing ANYTHING ELSE.

Ugh.
Hybrids make the most sense. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have EVs as well. There's room for both.

Hybrids:
- Still do vast majority of driving without burning any gas
- Still allow you to travel long distances without range anxiety, planning a potentially out of the way stop at a recharger, and when you get there wondering if said charger will work correctly or if the charging spots are all taken
- Can cost less than a full EV with a huge battery (not in all cases but definitely in some)
- Weighs less than a full EV with a huge battery
- Reduces resources needed for producing EVs with a huge battery
- Reduces the need for spending stupid amounts of money on infrastructure to build so many charging stations
- Still can work for people that don't own their own home or have access to charging while at their home...mild hybrid possibly better for these people, but even a plug in hybrid still better for them than full EV
- Still works for work vehicles and for towing


I'll stop there...I came up with that list without even having to stop and think about it. Might be a few more if I took the time to think about it.

Hybrids do not spend the vast majority of their time driving without gas. Not close really. The best hybrids improve fuel economy by about 40% over the same vehicle without a hybrid. The main purpose of the hybrid system is to supplement the ICE. The ICE still operates most of the time but can work less hard because the e-motor is chipping in. At low speeds, the vehicle can operate with the engine off, up to th capacity of the battery. That battery is typically under 2 kWh, so the amount of time is brief.

This is very nuanced. If you are talking Tesla, most of the driveable portions of the US and Canada are actually over-served in terms of DC Fast Charging locations and very rarely are there waiting lines for the charge ports. In my experience, I’ve only seen one instance where there were cars waiting for a charger. And that station only had 6 - 8 chargers. Most have 10 - 20. If you are driving a Tesla, it shows you where the chargers are on your path, how many are in use, what the charge speeds are, and how long it will take you to charge to your desired state of charge. The last time I used a Tesla Supercharger I picked the one with the most open chargers at speeds. Before we even got there it said that it would take 20 minutes to get to our SOC. Got to the Supercharger, plugged in, walked across the parking lot to McDonalds, used the restroom, ordered a meal and walked back to the car. It was done charging. Wound up eating while we drove. Now, keep in mind that Tesla is opening up their charging stations to practically every major manufacturer of EVs. This should elevate most of the problems drivers are having with ElectrifyAmerica, ChargePoint and other charging network providers.

What is often ignored is the amount of time saved by never going to a gas station. In the 5 months we’ve owned out Tesla we’ve spent 80 minutes at charging stations. How much time would we have spent in gas stations in that same 5 months? Assuming 5 minutes per fill up and one fill up a week, we’re at at least 100 minutes. Assuming you are able to pull up to an empty pump every time. By next month it will be 120 minutes and Tesla will still be at 80 minutes.
And so on until I make another long trip in the Tesla.

[el ess A]

Simply speculating here, but one benefit of going to a charging station is that you likely won't have to deal with the "Wanna sell that?" or, "How much you want for that?" questions like you do at the gas stations.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

I am on a trip in my hybrid right now. When I stopped at Chevron I got around 400 miles of range in 5 minutes

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

I am on a trip in my hybrid right now. When I stopped at Chevron I got around 400 miles of range in 5 minutes

I’m at home. I got about 260 miles of range while I ate dinner and slept. Probably paid a whole lot less than the cost of your 400 miles for the hybrid.

We just need to realize that the modes of replenishing are very different and. Not comparable. Except when it comes to cost.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Hybrids do not spend the vast majority of their time driving without gas. Not close really. The best hybrids improve fuel economy by about 40% over the same vehicle without a hybrid. The main purpose of the hybrid system is to supplement the ICE. The ICE still operates most of the time but can work less hard because the e-motor is chipping in. At low speeds, the vehicle can operate with the engine off, up to th capacity of the battery. That battery is typically under 2 kWh, so the amount of time is brief.

....

What is often ignored is the amount of time saved by never going to a gas station. In the 5 months we’ve owned out Tesla we’ve spent 80 minutes at charging stations. How much time would we have spent in gas stations in that same 5 months?....

First point...I was actually referring to PHEVs...not just a mild hybrid. With a PHEV and a battery large enough for the vehicle to achieve somewhere between 40 - 100 miles of range in just EV mode, then yes, most of the driving is done on electric only.

Second point....yes that is something that has to be taken into consideration. For the people where an EV "makes sense" for them and they have a place to charge at home.

I know this thread is about EVs, and not PHEVs, so I'm a little off in left field waving my arms over here, but for me the simplest way to put it is "EVs for some, but hybrids for everyone".

[Capricio]

Update from across the pond.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

And you always hear the tired cliche of EVs are only for the rich


Who can't afford a new car at $239 a month and save up to $hundreds on gas depending on prices where you live and how much you drive. No maintenance or warranty repair expenses either.



https://www.carsdirect.com/deals-art...is-crazy-cheap

Subaru piles on now, too.

[silversleeper]

Another numbers lie thing is the clickbait how they depreciate 50% !
Ok I took a deeper look at that today. It's true and not true just like how other stories are twisted.
Some folks paid $68k for their Tesla Y in 2022. Now they are $48k. So right off the bat that's a "$20k loss" that factors in. Yeah sorry for them, they got screwedSo here is that big loss buying EV story from years past and not reality in todays world.
I got $7500 in tax rebate plus $3k state locality rebate. Let's just pretend we get only the $7500.
That brings the $48k down to $41k minus taxes and license with cost on all cars and not part of depreciation we are looking at. (Yes it comes out of your pocket so buying and selling any car is a hit to your wallet.)
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...=300&zip=95350
I took a look and 2021 Model Y long range goes for about $32k now.
So That's only about a 25% loss in 3 years (not including my free $3k). This is much better than a similar ICE vehicle I might have bought instead. I just dislike misinformation

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

This news made me happy: "The Austin, Texas, company said Tuesday that it delivered 386,810 vehicles worldwide from January through March, almost 9% below the 423,000 it sold in the same quarter of last year. It was the first year-over-year quarterly sales decline in nearly four years.

The company blamed the decline in part on phasing in an updated version of the Model 3 sedan at its Fremont, California, factory, plant shutdowns due to shipping diversions in the Red Sea, and an arson attack that knocked out power to its German factory.

Tesla dramatically lowered U.S. prices by up to $20,000 for some models last year. In March it temporarily knocked $1,000 off the Model Y, its top-selling vehicle. Those price cuts narrowed the company’s profit margins and spooked investors.

Analysts polled by FactSet expected the average selling price for Model Y to be $41,000 last quarter, $5,000 less than a year ago and $15,000 lower than the peak of $56,000 in June of 2022."

Tesla makes stupid excuses like it's due to ramping up refreshed Model 3, but the fact is they made way more than 386,810 vehicles in this last quarter. Despite Tesla forcing massive price drops, they are selling less than when they were more expensive last year.

I don't like Teslas. A friend just bought a brand-new Model Y Long Range. I drove it on Sunday when it was 2 days old. Made me like Teslas even less. I hated the spartan and uninspiring interior. The exteriors and proportions always look silly except for the Model S, which looks good from the outside. While it drove nice enough, I would not buy one.